Comments on: Beijing Sounds - My Review http://laowaichinese.net/beijing-sounds-my-review.htm Tips and Strategies for Learning to Speak Chinese Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:10:55 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Sima http://laowaichinese.net/beijing-sounds-my-review.htm#comment-4159 Sima Thu, 01 May 2008 07:57:29 +0000 http://laowaichinese.net/beijing-sounds-my-review.htm#comment-4159 Randy, Nice example. I don't think I can pronounce that. Can you? I still think there are some more though. I've tried 'ruir' out on a dozen or so people and they all insist it's impossible - I think the all use an 'English' initial 'r' rather than the theoretical voiced partner of 'sh' though. I would also venture that 'ri' and 're' cannot erhua. Also wonder about some of the syllables made solely of a 'pure' vowel: 'e', 'wu'... Randy,

Nice example. I don’t think I can pronounce that. Can you? I still think there are some more though.

I’ve tried ‘ruir’ out on a dozen or so people and they all insist it’s impossible - I think the all use an ‘English’ initial ‘r’ rather than the theoretical voiced partner of ’sh’ though.

I would also venture that ‘ri’ and ‘re’ cannot erhua.

Also wonder about some of the syllables made solely of a ‘pure’ vowel: ‘e’, ‘wu’…

]]> By: Randy Alexander http://laowaichinese.net/beijing-sounds-my-review.htm#comment-4157 Randy Alexander Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:25:04 +0000 http://laowaichinese.net/beijing-sounds-my-review.htm#comment-4157 Albert: hm 噷 hng 哼 m 姆,呒,呣 n 嗯 ng 嗯 All of these have other, "normal pinyin" readings. Sima: Dongbei Fangyan Cidian has 柔儿柔儿地 (rour2rour2di, nimbly). Albert:
hm 噷
hng 哼
m 姆,呒,呣
n 嗯
ng 嗯

All of these have other, “normal pinyin” readings.

Sima:
Dongbei Fangyan Cidian has 柔儿柔儿地 (rour2rour2di, nimbly).

]]> By: Helen http://laowaichinese.net/beijing-sounds-my-review.htm#comment-4026 Helen Sat, 22 Mar 2008 12:02:40 +0000 http://laowaichinese.net/beijing-sounds-my-review.htm#comment-4026 To roll your r’s (A) the syllables end with a, o, e, u a → ar ia → iar ua → uar o or uo uor ao aor iao iaor e er u ur ou our iou iour (B) the finals are i, ü i → ier ü → üer (C) the finals are ai, ei, an, en, (including uai, uei, uan, uen, ian, üan ) ai → ar uai (uan) → uar üan → uar ei er uei uer an ar ian iar en er uen uer (D) the finals are in, ün in → ier ün → üer (E) the finals with the 'ng' ending / This is the difficult part. The vowels a, e, o, u must be twang-ized while ng-dropping when make the r sounds. ang → ar iang → iar uang → uar eng er ing ier ueng uer ong or iong ior (F) the finals with the 'e' ending ie → ier üe → üer To roll your r’s
(A) the syllables end with a, o, e, u
a → ar
ia → iar
ua → uar
o or
uo uor
ao aor
iao iaor
e er
u ur
ou our
iou iour

(B) the finals are i, ü
i → ier
ü → üer

(C) the finals are ai, ei, an, en, (including uai, uei, uan, uen, ian, üan )
ai → ar
uai (uan) → uar
üan → uar
ei er
uei uer
an ar
ian iar
en er
uen uer

(D) the finals are in, ün
in → ier
ün → üer

(E) the finals with the ‘ng’ ending /
This is the difficult part. The vowels a, e, o, u must be twang-ized while ng-dropping when make the r sounds.
ang → ar
iang → iar
uang → uar
eng er
ing ier
ueng uer
ong or
iong ior

(F) the finals with the ‘e’ ending
ie → ier
üe → üer

]]> By: Sima http://laowaichinese.net/beijing-sounds-my-review.htm#comment-4021 Sima Sun, 16 Mar 2008 12:00:57 +0000 http://laowaichinese.net/beijing-sounds-my-review.htm#comment-4021 Randy & Albert, I suspect that there are more syllables which can't 儿化. One area to look might be syllables beginning with 'r'. Whilst 'ren' clearly can 儿化, I would venture that 'rui'is near impossible. Any thoughts? Randy & Albert,
I suspect that there are more syllables which can’t 儿化. One area to look might be syllables beginning with ‘r’. Whilst ‘ren’ clearly can 儿化, I would venture that ‘rui’is near impossible.
Any thoughts?

]]> By: Helen http://laowaichinese.net/beijing-sounds-my-review.htm#comment-4017 Helen Sat, 15 Mar 2008 12:23:37 +0000 http://laowaichinese.net/beijing-sounds-my-review.htm#comment-4017 Hello Ken, Glad to see that you are so fond of Beijing wenhua, almost like a strong supporter. Your enthusiasm must be appreciated. But about ‘the indigenous local language and culture is on the wane’, we have to accept something of that kind is occurring with the tide of Civilization, however, this native language and culture the people do not put aside. People manage to speak the common tongue for an efficient communication and a better understanding. Actually, there’re lots of difference between Putonghua and Beijing hua. As far as I know, mandarin is supposed to be a language variation on pronunciation more than words or phrases. It has a clear tone and less ‘r’ sound, but in contrast, Beijing hua includes more the twang, r sound, stress, syllable-dropping and drawling voice. Besides, Beijing hua is such a dialect mixture that hard to be understood by the non-locals. Here’re some Beijing tuhua for having a guess about the meaning of each. 1．wánglǎo wǔ 王老五；2.bǎi lóngménzhèn 摆龙门阵；3.shuōhuà yàozǒu 说话要走； 4.gàir bùlìn概儿不论； 5.jiānguǒ 尖果；6.dàná 大拿；7.chídēng迟登 ‘ ‘Beijing sounds A. : 1.nickname of a bachelor 2. chat 3. (I’m)leaving 4. don’t care/consider anything 5.pretty girl 6. people in authority 7. hesitate It’s really pleasant to learn with you nice people. Hello Ken,
Glad to see that you are so fond of Beijing wenhua, almost like a strong supporter. Your enthusiasm must be appreciated.
But about ‘the indigenous local language and culture is on the wane’, we have to accept something of that kind is occurring with the tide of Civilization, however, this native language and culture the people do not put aside.
People manage to speak the common tongue for an efficient communication and a better understanding. Actually, there’re lots of difference between Putonghua and Beijing hua.
As far as I know, mandarin is supposed to be a language variation on pronunciation more than words or phrases. It has a clear tone and less ‘r’ sound, but in contrast, Beijing hua includes more the twang, r sound, stress, syllable-dropping and drawling voice. Besides, Beijing hua is such a dialect mixture that hard to be understood by the non-locals.
Here’re some Beijing tuhua for having a guess about the meaning of each.
1．wánglǎo wǔ 王老五；2.bǎi lóngménzhèn 摆龙门阵；3.shuōhuà yàozǒu 说话要走；
4.gàir bùlìn概儿不论； 5.jiānguǒ 尖果；6.dàná 大拿；7.chídēng迟登 ‘ ‘Beijing sounds
A. : 1.nickname of a bachelor 2. chat 3. (I’m)leaving 4. don’t care/consider anything
5.pretty girl 6. people in authority 7. hesitate
It’s really pleasant to learn with you nice people.

]]> By: Albert http://laowaichinese.net/beijing-sounds-my-review.htm#comment-4008 Albert Fri, 14 Mar 2008 05:55:50 +0000 http://laowaichinese.net/beijing-sounds-my-review.htm#comment-4008 Randy, Those syllables are indeed wondrous strange to me. Can you give us some examples of characters and/or definitions for the (what I shall now unscientifically call) "wacky syllables"? It does help to know that all syllables in (what I shall now call) "normal pinyin" are fair game for being R-ized. If indeed every syllable can have an "r" added at the end, why isn't there a sound set of those available for online Chinese dictionaries to use? Anyone feel like taking that project on? I know <a href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?page=worddictbasic&wdqb=r5&wdrst=0&wddmtm=1" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">MDBG</a> could use it. I suppose it should be a northerner to do the recording, right? Randy,

Those syllables are indeed wondrous strange to me. Can you give us some examples of characters and/or definitions for the (what I shall now unscientifically call) “wacky syllables”?

It does help to know that all syllables in (what I shall now call) “normal pinyin” are fair game for being R-ized. If indeed every syllable can have an “r” added at the end, why isn’t there a sound set of those available for online Chinese dictionaries to use? Anyone feel like taking that project on? I know MDBG could use it. I suppose it should be a northerner to do the recording, right?

]]> By: Ken Grey http://laowaichinese.net/beijing-sounds-my-review.htm#comment-3995 Ken Grey Tue, 11 Mar 2008 13:30:53 +0000 http://laowaichinese.net/beijing-sounds-my-review.htm#comment-3995 Thanks Helen & Randy! I'm posit5ively delighted to see the discussion of Beijinghua expanding to other active Beijing blogs....including this one.Our answer to those press people who think that the indiginous local language and culture is on the wane....is found in efforts like this.We westerners can help preserve Beijing tuhua by using more of it ourselves,and by supporting the ongoing preservation efforts! Lao Beijing de wenhua....Wan Sui! Thanks Helen & Randy! I’m posit5ively delighted to see the discussion of Beijinghua expanding to other active Beijing blogs….including this one.Our answer to those press people who think that the indiginous local language and culture is on the wane….is found in efforts like this.We westerners can help preserve Beijing tuhua by using more of it ourselves,and by supporting the ongoing preservation efforts! Lao Beijing de wenhua….Wan Sui!

]]> By: Randy Alexander http://laowaichinese.net/beijing-sounds-my-review.htm#comment-3994 Randy Alexander Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:53:10 +0000 http://laowaichinese.net/beijing-sounds-my-review.htm#comment-3994 You said you wanted a list of all syllables that can have 儿化. It would be much simpler to give you a list of all syllables that can't have 儿化: hm hng m n ng Those of you who are thinking that these aren't pinyin syllables -- I got them all from the pinyin index to _The Contemporary Chinese Dictionary_ (现代汉语词典). There are even characters for all of them. A deeper step in this direction would be to find and list all of the syllables that generally do or don't have 儿化. But that might not help much because theoretically, all syllables (aside from the ones I listed above) can have 儿化. Good dictionaries like the one I listed above will tell you whether 儿化 is generally added to the syllable in a word or not You said you wanted a list of all syllables that can have 儿化. It would be much simpler to give you a list of all syllables that can’t have 儿化:

hm
hng
m
n
ng

Those of you who are thinking that these aren’t pinyin syllables — I got them all from the pinyin index to _The Contemporary Chinese Dictionary_ (现代汉语词典). There are even characters for all of them.

A deeper step in this direction would be to find and list all of the syllables that generally do or don’t have 儿化. But that might not help much because theoretically, all syllables (aside from the ones I listed above) can have 儿化.

Good dictionaries like the one I listed above will tell you whether 儿化 is generally added to the syllable in a word or not

]]> By: Helen http://laowaichinese.net/beijing-sounds-my-review.htm#comment-3992 Helen Mon, 10 Mar 2008 01:02:23 +0000 http://laowaichinese.net/beijing-sounds-my-review.htm#comment-3992 Aha , I’ve found this-- http://www.eshu.cn/mp3/xiangsheng.mp3 a piece of crosstalk about Beijing hua which is made by the native Beijing ren. You can get the pronunciation of Beijing and shengr from it. Listen carefully and master them, you will pronounce the name ‘Bjing de shengr’ yourself. These the ‘r’ sound and the Beijing dialects are mentioned in it: 1. Xiàng shengr 2. zhèr 3. zìr 4. ràokǒulìngr 5. zheiwèir 6. diànyǐngr 7. nàr 1* diānr le颠了 2* sāyāzi撒丫子 3* cān le(luo) 餐了 4* kěn (kèn) 啃 5* lùn ( lìn) 论 6* kāile（luo）开了 7* lǔ le（luo）捋 8* diǎnbu 点补 P.S. (…) ---Beijing sound Aha , I’ve found this– http://www.eshu.cn/mp3/xiangsheng.mp3 a piece of crosstalk about Beijing hua which is made by the native Beijing ren.
You can get the pronunciation of Beijing and shengr from it.
Listen carefully and master them, you will pronounce the name ‘Bjing de shengr’ yourself.

These the ‘r’ sound and the Beijing dialects are mentioned in it:
1. Xiàng shengr
2. zhèr
3. zìr
4. ràokǒulìngr
5. zheiwèir
6. diànyǐngr
7. nàr
1* diānr le颠了
2* sāyāzi撒丫子
3* cān le(luo) 餐了
4* kěn (kèn) 啃
5* lùn ( lìn) 论
6* kāile（luo）开了
7* lǔ le（luo）捋
8* diǎnbu 点补
P.S. (…) —Beijing sound

]]> By: syz http://laowaichinese.net/beijing-sounds-my-review.htm#comment-3990 syz Sun, 09 Mar 2008 14:30:49 +0000 http://laowaichinese.net/beijing-sounds-my-review.htm#comment-3990 gosh, shucks. Thanks for the undeserved kudos -- hope it doesn't all lead to disappointment. Good suggestions. I'll definitely work on a couple of them, but I keep running into this darn day-job constraint :^) gosh, shucks. Thanks for the undeserved kudos — hope it doesn’t all lead to disappointment.

Good suggestions. I’ll definitely work on a couple of them, but I keep running into this darn day-job constraint :^)

]]>