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	<title>Laowai Chinese 老外中文 &#187; Explanations</title>
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	<description>Tips and Strategies for Learning to Speak Mandarin Chinese</description>
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		<title>My One Friend</title>
		<link>http://laowaichinese.net/my-one-friend.htm</link>
		<comments>http://laowaichinese.net/my-one-friend.htm#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 May 2010 23:52:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Albert</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Explanations]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laowaichinese.net/?p=1665</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here&#8217;s a little trip down grammar lane, trying to get to the bottom of how the English word &#8220;one&#8221; can be translated so many different ways in Chinese. It might surprise you how the Chinese say: 1. &#8220;one of my friends&#8221; My first impulse was, of course, a sort of word-for-word translation: yí gè wǒ [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a little trip down grammar lane, trying to get to the bottom of how the English word &#8220;one&#8221; can be translated so many different ways in Chinese.</p>
<p>It might surprise you how the Chinese say:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong>1. &#8220;one of my friends&#8221;</strong></p>
<p>My first impulse was, of course, a sort of word-for-word translation:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">yí gè wǒ de péngyou *WRONG*</span></p>
<p>This is better:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">1. wǒ de yí gè péngyou <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%88%91%E7%9A%84%E4%B8%80%E4%B8%AA%E6%9C%8B%E5%8F%8B">我的一个朋友</a></p>
<p>Which is literally &#8220;My one friend.&#8221;</p>
<p>So what if you want to say:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong>2. &#8220;He&#8217;s my one friend&#8221; OR &#8220;He&#8217;s my only friend&#8221;</strong></p>
<p>Here&#8217;s where you employ a new word (immortalized in <a href="http://mp3.baidu.com/m?f=3&amp;rf=idx&amp;tn=baidump3&amp;ct=134217728&amp;lf=&amp;rn=&amp;word=%CE%A8%D2%BB+%CD%F5%C1%A6%BA%EA&amp;lm=-1&amp;oq=weiyi&amp;rsp=1" target="_blank">Wáng Lìhóng&#8217;s 王力宏 famous song</a>):</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">2. Tā shì wǒ wéiyī de péngyou. <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BB%96%E6%98%AF%E6%88%91%E5%94%AF%E4%B8%80%E7%9A%84%E6%9C%8B%E5%8F%8B">他是我唯一的朋友</a>.</p>
<p>If you still want to use the number and measure word, you could also say:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">2. Wǒ zhǐyǒu tā yí gè péngyou <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%88%91%E5%8F%AA%E6%9C%89%E4%BB%96%E4%B8%80%E4%B8%AA%E6%9C%8B%E5%8F%8B">我只有他一个朋友</a></p>
<p>So now what about if I want to say:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong>3. &#8220;He&#8217;s one of my best students.&#8221;</strong></p>
<p>There are three common ways to translate that (click the hanzi for a literal breakdown of what each word means):</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">3. Tā shì wǒ zuì hǎo xuéshēng zhīyī. <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BB%96%E6%98%AF%E6%88%91%E6%9C%80%E5%A5%BD%E5%AD%A6%E7%94%9F%E4%B9%8B%E4%B8%80">他是我最好学生之一</a>.<br />
Tā shì wǒ zuì hǎo xuéshēng lǐmiàn de yí gè. <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BB%96%E6%98%AF%E6%88%91%E6%9C%80%E5%A5%BD%E5%AD%A6%E7%94%9F%E9%87%8C%E9%9D%A2%E7%9A%84%E4%B8%80%E4%B8%AA">他是我最好学生里面的一个</a>.<br />
Tā shì wǒ zuì hǎo xuéshēng (zhī)zhōng de yí gè. <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BB%96%E6%98%AF%E6%88%91%E6%9C%80%E5%A5%BD%E5%AD%A6%E7%94%9F%28%E4%B9%8B%29%E4%B8%AD%E7%9A%84%E4%B8%80%E4%B8%AA">他是我最好学生(之)中的一个</a>.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the same grammar you would use if you wanted to say:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong>4. &#8220;I need one of you to help me.&#8221;</strong></p>
<p>Except, my informant said the &#8220;zhīyī&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%B9%8B%E4%B8%80">之一</a> construction would sound weird here, which only leaves:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">4. Wǒ xūyào nǐmen lǐmiàn de yí gè lái bāng wǒ. <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%88%91%E9%9C%80%E8%A6%81%E4%BD%A0%E4%BB%AC%E9%87%8C%E9%9D%A2%E7%9A%84%E4%B8%80%E4%B8%AA%E6%9D%A5%E5%B8%AE%E6%88%91">我需要你们里面的一个来帮我</a>.<br />
Wǒ xūyào nǐmen (zhī)zhōng de yí gè lái bāng wǒ. <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%88%91%E9%9C%80%E8%A6%81%E4%BD%A0%E4%BB%AC%28%E4%B9%8B%29%E4%B8%AD%E7%9A%84%E4%B8%80%E4%B8%AA%E6%9D%A5%E5%B8%AE%E6%88%91">我需要你们(之)中的一个来帮我</a>.</p>
<p>And now the grand finale:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong>5. He&#8217;s one of the only foreign teachers who can speak Chinese.</strong></p>
<p>That &#8220;one of the only who can&#8221; I was told is best translated as &#8220;among the minority who can.&#8221; For example, one possible translation would be:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">5. Tā shì shǎoshù huì shuō zhōngwén de wàijiào zhōng de yí gè <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BB%96%E6%98%AF%E5%B0%91%E6%95%B0%E4%BC%9A%E8%AF%B4%E4%B8%AD%E6%96%87%E7%9A%84%E5%A4%96%E6%95%99%E4%B8%AD%E7%9A%84%E4%B8%80%E4%B8%AA">他是少数会说中文的外教中的一个</a>.</p>
<p>What a complex sentence, eh? Anyone know of any other ways to say that? <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/my-one-friend.htm#respond">Please help</a>.</p>
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</ul><!-- Similar Posts took 6.945 ms -->]]></content:encoded>
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		<slash:comments>9</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Nǐ hǎo 你好: A Very Fake Greeting</title>
		<link>http://laowaichinese.net/n%c7%90-h%c7%8eo-%e4%bd%a0%e5%a5%bd-a-very-fake-greeting.htm</link>
		<comments>http://laowaichinese.net/n%c7%90-h%c7%8eo-%e4%bd%a0%e5%a5%bd-a-very-fake-greeting.htm#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 00:26:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Albert</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Explanations]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laowaichinese.net/?p=1585</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was waiting for my turn at the ping pong table the other night, when an older teacher started walking past me. I&#8217;d seen him several times before and even played ping pong with him once. &#8220;Nǐ hǎo 你好,&#8221; I said. He stopped his walk and said, in all sincerity that most people don&#8217;t say [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was waiting for my turn at the ping pong table the other night, when an older teacher started walking past me. I&#8217;d seen him several times before and even played ping pong with him once.</p>
<p>&#8220;Nǐ hǎo <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BD%A0%E5%A5%BD">你好</a>,&#8221; I said.</p>
<p>He stopped his walk and said, in all sincerity that most people don&#8217;t say &#8220;nǐ hǎo&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BD%A0%E5%A5%BD">你好</a> as a greeting. It just sounds too fake (tài jiǎ de <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%A4%AA%E5%81%87%E7%9A%84">太假的</a>).</p>
<p>I was very startled and asked him to please tell me what I should say. He then went into how good friends will say, &#8220;Chīfàn le ma?&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%90%83%E9%A5%AD%E4%BA%86%E5%90%97">吃饭了吗</a>? or one of the many variations on the question and there are different responses depending on whether or not you&#8217;ve just eaten.</p>
<p>This might have been a good little prank, but he was perfectly serious. He was even explaining it to one of his Chinese colleagues who was standing there too (as if he didn&#8217;t know!). The colleague, in all earnestness, was agreeing and adding little tid bits of his own to the advice.</p>
<p>I listened very politely and then it ended and they left.</p>
<p>I was surprised to hear all this because:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong>A.</strong> I already know all about &#8220;Chī le ma?&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%90%83%E4%BA%86%E5%90%97">吃了吗</a>? and all the other &#8221;eat-n-greet&#8221; options around here. I was shocked that these teachers thought I could understand all the other vocabulary they were using yet, somehow, managed to miss one of the most basic greetings.</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong>B.</strong> I thought &#8220;Nǐ hǎo&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BD%A0%E5%A5%BD">你好</a> was perfectly friendly. I had no idea it sounded so &#8220;fake.&#8221; I think he might have meant it was too formal and not casual enough for good friends.</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong>C.</strong> I don&#8217;t consider him a good friend. He&#8217;s an older teacher who I&#8217;ve only spoken with a few times, and usually the conversations have left me (like this one) with an unpleasant wèidào <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%91%B3%E9%81%93">味道</a> in my kǒu <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%8F%A3">口</a>.</p>
<p>So the real questions for any of those loyal few who still tune in to this blog are:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong>1.</strong> Is there any truth in what this man says?</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong>2.</strong> Should I now be afraid to say &#8220;Nǐ hǎo&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BD%A0%E5%A5%BD">你好</a> at the risk of sounding fake?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know why, I  just prefer not to ask people if they&#8217;ve eaten as a greeting. But I&#8217;d be willing to try if the overwhelming number of <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/n%c7%90-h%c7%8eo-%e4%bd%a0%e5%a5%bd-a-very-fake-greeting.htm#respond">comments</a> (i.e. more than zero) tell me I should.</p>
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		<title>Tennis Players and Drummers</title>
		<link>http://laowaichinese.net/tennis-players-and-drummers.htm</link>
		<comments>http://laowaichinese.net/tennis-players-and-drummers.htm#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 05:51:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Albert</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Explanations]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laowaichinese.net/?p=1550</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As I&#8217;m sure my English-speaking readers would agree, the agent marker &#8220;-er&#8221; is tough for Chinese learners. We use it all the time in English (3 times in the previous sentence) but it&#8217;s not so readily available in Chinese. Example 1: Tennis Player Imagine I see a girl walking down the street with a tennis [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I&#8217;m sure my English-speaking readers would agree, the agent marker &#8220;-er&#8221; is tough for Chinese learners. We use it all the time in English (3 times in the previous sentence) but it&#8217;s not so readily available in Chinese.</p>
<h3>Example 1: Tennis Player</h3>
<p>Imagine I see a girl walking down the street with a tennis racket in her hand. I want to dāshàn <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%90%AD%E8%AE%AA">搭讪</a> (not to be confused with <a href="http://www.dashan.com/en/index.htm" target="_blank">you-know-who</a>). In English, I&#8217;d say something like:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">&#8220;Nice racket you&#8217;ve got there. So, are you a tennis player?&#8221;</p>
<p>How would we translate that second sentence into Chinese? Well, looking at &#8220;reporter&#8221; (jìzhě <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%AE%B0%E8%80%85">记者</a>) and &#8220;scholar&#8221; (xuézhě <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%AD%A6%E8%80%85">学者</a>) we see that you just add &#8220;-zhě&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%80%85">者</a> to the end of a verb and you&#8217;ve suddenly got a noun meaning &#8220;someone who VERBs.&#8221; Unfortunately, even though the grammar is <em>technically</em> correct for a literal translation, the word <span style="color: #ff0000;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;">dǎzhě</span> </span><span style="color: #ff0000;"><a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%89%93%E8%80%85">打者</a> </span>doesn&#8217;t exist, so this is impossible:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">Wrong:<br />
Nǐ shì wǎngqiú <span style="text-decoration: underline;">dǎzhě</span> ma? <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BD%A0%E6%98%AF%E7%BD%91%E7%90%83">你是网球</a><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%89%93%E8%80%85">打者</a></span><a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%90%97">吗</a>? = Are you a tennis player? [you are tennis play-er {p}]</span></p>
<p>So what should we say? The other agent markers are out because you can&#8217;t add them to &#8220;dǎ&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%89%93">打</a> either:</p>
<ul>
<li>-jiā <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%AE%B6">家</a> = -er (like in &#8220;huàjiā&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E7%94%BB%E5%AE%B6">画家</a> = painter)</li>
<li>-yuán <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%91%98">员</a> = -er (like in &#8220;yǎnyuán&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%BC%94%E5%91%98">演员</a> = actor / performer)</li>
</ul>
<p>These words do not exist is Chinese:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">Wrong:<br />
Nǐ shì wǎngqiú <span style="text-decoration: underline;">dǎjiā</span> ma? <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BD%A0%E6%98%AF%E7%BD%91%E7%90%83">你是网球</a><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%89%93%E5%AE%B6">打家</a></span><a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%90%97">吗</a>?<br />
Nǐ shì wǎngqiú <span style="text-decoration: underline;">dǎyuán</span> ma? <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BD%A0%E6%98%AF%E7%BD%91%E7%90%83">你是网球</a><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%89%93%E5%91%98">打员</a></span><a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%90%97">吗</a>? </span></p>
<p>You could add yuán <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%91%98">员</a> to &#8220;tennis,&#8221; but that sounds too professional:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">Nǐ shì wǎngqiúyuán ma? <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BD%A0%E6%98%AF%E7%BD%91%E7%90%83%E5%91%98%E5%90%97">你是网球员吗</a>? = Are you a (professional) tennis player?</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not really my question. I just want to know if she plays tennis.</p>
<p>So I suggested to my informants the trusty &#8220;shì&#8230;de&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%98%AF">是</a>&#8230;<a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E7%9A%84">的</a> construction:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">Nǐ shì dǎ wǎngqiú de ma? <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BD%A0%E6%98%AF%E6%89%93%E7%BD%91%E7%90%83%E7%9A%84%E5%90%97">你是打网球的吗</a>? = Are you a tennis player? [you are play tennis {p} {p}]</p>
<p>They said it&#8217;s ok, but sounds strange. It turns out what most Chinese people would say is simply:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong>Nǐ huì dǎ wǎngqiú ma? <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BD%A0%E4%BC%9A%E6%89%93%E7%BD%91%E7%90%83%E5%90%97">你会打网球吗</a>? = Do you know how to play tennis?</strong></p>
<p>OR better yet:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong>Nǐ jīngcháng dǎ wǎngqiú ma? <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BD%A0%E7%BB%8F%E5%B8%B8%E6%89%93%E7%BD%91%E7%90%83%E5%90%97">你经常打网球吗</a>? = Do you often play tennis?</strong></p>
<p>I know, I know, I know. We don&#8217;t want to talk about how <em>often </em>she plays, but that&#8217;s the way Chinese people would ask our original question, &#8220;Are you a tennis player?&#8221; or &#8220;Do you play tennis?&#8221; Apparently, adding the &#8220;jīngcháng&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E7%BB%8F%E5%B8%B8">经常</a> in there is better (or at least more dìdao <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%9C%B0%E9%81%93">地道</a>) than just saying: &#8220;Nǐ dǎ wǎngqiú ma?&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BD%A0%E6%89%93%E7%BD%91%E7%90%83%E5%90%97">你打网球吗</a>?</p>
<p><strong>Lesson 1 = If you can leave out the agent marker and just ask a simple &#8220;Do you often VERB?&#8221; question, that&#8217;s probably best.</strong></p>
<h3>Example 2: Drummer</h3>
<p>But sometimes that&#8217;s really not what I want to know. Imagine I&#8217;m at a rock show and I meet a band of 4 guys before their set. I want to know who is the drummer in the band. Now, I could just ask each of them:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">Nǐ huì dǎ gǔ ma? <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BD%A0%E4%BC%9A%E6%89%93%E9%BC%93%E5%90%97">你会打鼓吗</a>? = Do you know how to play the drums?</p>
<p>But there&#8217;s always that chance, especially because everyone knows how to hit stuff, that they&#8217;ll ALL say, &#8220;Yes.&#8221; They might even hit them pretty often, which renders the &#8220;jīngcháng&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E7%BB%8F%E5%B8%B8">经常</a> construction useless. I really just want to ask about the drummer! Enter: &#8220;hand.&#8221;</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">Nǐ shì gǔshǒu ma? <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BD%A0%E6%98%AF%E9%BC%93%E6%89%8B%E5%90%97">你是鼓手吗</a>? = Are you the drummer? [you are drum-hand {p}]</p>
<p>&#8220;Hand&#8221; works as the agent marker for most (all?) instrumentalists (jítāshǒu <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%90%89%E4%BB%96%E6%89%8B">吉他手</a> = guitarist) and in some other situations as well:</p>
<ul>
<li>xuǎnshǒu <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E9%80%89%E6%89%8B">选手</a> = competitor / contestant [choose hand]</li>
<li>shuǐshǒu <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%B0%B4%E6%89%8B">水手</a> = sailor [water hand]</li>
<li>qiāngshǒu <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%9E%AA%E6%89%8B">枪手</a> = gunner [gun hand]</li>
<li>duìshǒu <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%AF%B9%E6%89%8B">对手</a> = opponent [opposite hand]</li>
</ul>
<h3>Summary</h3>
<p>I&#8217;m always looking for some sort of guīlǜ <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%A7%84%E5%BE%8B">规律</a> to guide me when thinking about these things and here&#8217;s what I&#8217;ve got so far (although it&#8217;s not even close to perfect):</p>
<ol>
<li>If it&#8217;s the <strong>formal name of an actual job</strong> (reporter, scholar, actor, tennis player, etc.) look for some sort of formal word that may use any of the following: &#8220;-zhě&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%80%85">者</a>, &#8220;-jiā&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%AE%B6">家</a>, or &#8220;-yuán&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%91%98">员</a> to create the job title.</li>
<li>If it&#8217;s <strong>less formal or more of a temporary or amateur position</strong> (drummer in a band, competitor) look to add &#8220;-shǒu&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%89%8B">手</a> after the main noun involved (sailor and gunner are exceptions I guess, as is ).</li>
<li>If you just want to talk about a <strong>hobby</strong>, just ask &#8220;Do you often VERB?&#8221;</li>
</ol>
<p>As an example, if I want to create a formal book club dedicated to reading the collected works of Lǔ Xùn <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E9%B2%81%E8%BF%85">鲁迅</a>, I&#8217;d say:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">Lǔ Xùn de dúzhě <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E9%B2%81%E8%BF%85%E7%9A%84%E8%AF%BB%E8%80%85">鲁迅的读者</a> = readers of Lu Xun</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">(One student told me that authors often thank the &#8220;dúzhě&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%AF%BB%E8%80%85">读者</a> at the end of a book.)</p>
<p>But after that tennis racket girl shuts me down and I want to change tactics and ask if she&#8217;s an avid reader, I should say:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">Nà, nǐ jīngcháng kàn shū ma? <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E9%82%A3">那</a>,<a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BD%A0%E7%BB%8F%E5%B8%B8%E7%9C%8B%E4%B9%A6%E5%90%97">你经常看书吗</a>? = So, do you often read books?</p>
<p>She&#8217;ll probably think I&#8217;m a player or a loser and just walk away.</p>
<em>Similar Posts (computer generated):</em><ul><li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/doubt-harder-than-youd-suspect.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2009 August 17">Doubt: Harder Than You&#8217;d Suspect</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/whats-that-zi-thing.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2006 December 6">What&#8217;s that &#8220;zi&#8221; 子 thing?</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/hey-thats-cheating-ok.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2010 July 6">Hey, That&#8217;s Cheating! OK?</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/stump-the-chinese-velcro-and-boombox.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2009 January 27">Stump the Chinese: Velcro and Boombox</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/hsk-vocabulary-levels-added-to-mdbg.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2008 July 3">HSK Vocabulary Levels Added to MDBG</a></li>
</ul><!-- Similar Posts took 8.359 ms -->]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://laowaichinese.net/tennis-players-and-drummers.htm/feed</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>5</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Doubt: Harder Than You&#8217;d Suspect</title>
		<link>http://laowaichinese.net/doubt-harder-than-youd-suspect.htm</link>
		<comments>http://laowaichinese.net/doubt-harder-than-youd-suspect.htm#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 03:28:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Albert</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Divergent Concepts]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Explanations]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laowaichinese.net/?p=622</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Quiz time! 1. Look at the picture 2. Answer the question (to yourself) 3. Check the answer below (no peeking!) Question This is a picture of graffiti advertising for machine drilling a new well (jī zuàn jǐng 机钻井).  I asked my students why there were so many phone numbers advertising the same exact thing.  Some [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quiz time!</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">1. Look at the picture</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">2. Answer the question (to yourself)</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">3. Check the answer below (no peeking!)</p>
<p><img class="alignnone size-medium wp-image-664" style="border: 0pt none;" title="graffiti" src="http://laowaichinese.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/graffiti.jpg" alt="" width="498" height="281" /></p>
<h3><strong>Question</strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong><br />
</strong></span></h3>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">This is a picture of graffiti advertising for machine drilling a new well (jī zuàn jǐng <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%9C%BA%E9%92%BB%E4%BA%95">机钻井</a>).  I asked my students why there were so many phone numbers advertising the same exact thing.  Some students said the numbers all belong to the same person.  Other students disagreed.  One student said, in Chinese:</p>
<blockquote style="padding-left: 30px;"><p>Wǒ huáiyí zhèxiē hàomǎ dōu shì yí gè rén de.<br />
<a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%88%91%E6%80%80%E7%96%91%E8%BF%99%E4%BA%9B%E5%8F%B7%E7%A0%81%E9%83%BD%E6%98%AF%E4%B8%80%E4%B8%AA%E4%BA%BA%E7%9A%84">我怀疑这些号码都是一个人的</a>.</p></blockquote>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">And the debate went on.</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong>What is the correct English translation of that sentence?</strong></p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">Feel free to use a dictionary.  Click the hanzi above to use an online one.</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">Write down or at least say aloud what you think the correct translation should be before reading on.  The answer has nothing to do with the context of the situation.  There is one grammatically correct answer.</p>
<h3><strong>Answer</strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong><br />
</strong></span></h3>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="color: #ff0000;"><span style="text-decoration: line-through;">Wrong: I doubt these numbers are all one person&#8217;s.</span></span></p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">Correct: <strong>I suspect these numbers are all one person&#8217;s.</strong></p>
<h3><strong>The Problem</strong></h3>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">huáiyí <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%80%80%E7%96%91">怀疑</a> = doubt / suspect.</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">But &#8220;doubt&#8221; and &#8220;suspect&#8221; have opposites meanings in English!</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">So how do we know what native speakers mean when they use huáiyí <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%80%80%E7%96%91">怀疑</a>?  And how do we find know what <em>we</em> really said if we use it?</p>
<h3><strong>The Solution</strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong><br />
</strong></span></h3>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">Let&#8217;s first look at what you have to say in Chinese if you really want to say:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 60px;">&#8220;I doubt these numbers are all one person&#8217;s.&#8221;<br />
wǒ huáiyí zhèxiē hàomǎ dōu <strong>bú</strong> shì yí gè rén de.<br />
<a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%88%91%E6%80%80%E7%96%91%E8%BF%99%E4%BA%9B%E5%8F%B7%E7%A0%81%E9%83%BD%E4%B8%8D%E6%98%AF%E4%B8%80%E4%B8%AA%E4%BA%BA%E7%9A%84">我怀疑这些号码都不是一个人的</a>.</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">So here&#8217;s how I suggest dealing with huáiyí <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%80%80%E7%96%91">怀疑</a> in different grammatical situations:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong>1. huáiyí <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%80%80%E7%96%91">怀疑</a> + Independent Noun Clause </strong>(contains Subject and Verb, even if the Subject is implied)</p>
<p style="padding-left: 60px;">In this case, <strong>huáiyí </strong><a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%80%80%E7%96%91">怀疑</a> <strong>= </strong><strong>rènwéi </strong><a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%AE%A4%E4%B8%BA">认为</a> = &#8220;<strong>suspect</strong>&#8221; = &#8220;<strong>think</strong>.&#8221;</p>
<p style="padding-left: 60px;">The original sentence:</p>
<blockquote style="padding-left: 30px;">
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">Wǒ <strong>huáiyí</strong> zhèxiē hàomǎ dōu shì yí gè rén de.<br />
<a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%88%91%E6%80%80%E7%96%91%E8%BF%99%E4%BA%9B%E5%8F%B7%E7%A0%81%E9%83%BD%E6%98%AF%E4%B8%80%E4%B8%AA%E4%BA%BA%E7%9A%84">我怀疑这些号码都是一个人的</a>.</p></blockquote>
<p style="padding-left: 60px;">Basically means:</p>
<blockquote style="padding-left: 30px;">
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">Wǒ <strong>rènwéi </strong>zhèxiē hàomǎ dōu shì yí gè rén de.<br />
<a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%88%91%E8%AE%A4%E4%B8%BA%E8%BF%99%E4%BA%9B%E5%8F%B7%E7%A0%81%E9%83%BD%E6%98%AF%E4%B8%80%E4%B8%AA%E4%BA%BA%E7%9A%84">我认为这些号码都是一个人的</a>.</p></blockquote>
<p style="padding-left: 60px;">Which can be translated as:</p>
<blockquote style="padding-left: 30px;">
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">I <strong>suspect</strong> these numbers are all one person&#8217;s.<br />
- or -<br />
I <strong>think</strong> these number are all one person&#8217;s.</p></blockquote>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong>2. <strong>huáiyí <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%80%80%E7%96%91">怀疑</a> + (nothing)<br />
- or -<br />
</strong></strong><strong><strong>huáiyí <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%80%80%E7%96%91">怀疑</a> + Noun </strong></strong></p>
<p style="padding-left: 60px;">In this case, <strong>huáiyí <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%80%80%E7%96%91">怀疑</a> = </strong>&#8220;<strong>doubt</strong>.&#8221;</p>
<p style="padding-left: 60px;">For example:</p>
<blockquote style="padding-left: 30px;">
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">A: tā shuō tā huì lái.<br />
<a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BB%96%E8%AF%B4%E4%BB%96%E4%BC%9A%E6%9D%A5">他说他会来</a>.<br />
He said he&#8217;ll come.</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">B: wǒ huáiyí.<br />
<a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%88%91%E6%80%80%E7%96%91">我怀疑</a>.<br />
I doubt it.</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">- or -</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">B: wǒ huáiyí tā shuō de huà.<br />
<a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%88%91%E6%80%80%E7%96%91%E4%BB%96%E8%AF%B4%E7%9A%84%E8%AF%9D">我怀疑他说的话</a>.<br />
I doubt what he said.</p></blockquote>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong>3. <strong>huáiyí <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%80%80%E7%96%91">怀疑</a> + Phrase containing &#8220;Verb Not Verb&#8221; </strong></strong></p>
<p style="padding-left: 60px;">In this case, <strong>huáiyí <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%80%80%E7%96%91">怀疑</a> = &#8220;</strong><strong>doubt&#8221;</strong><strong> +</strong><strong> Verb </strong></p>
<p style="padding-left: 60px;">For example:</p>
<blockquote style="padding-left: 30px;">
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">wǒ huáiyí tā huì bú huì lái.<br />
<a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%88%91%E6%80%80%E7%96%91%E4%BB%96%E4%BC%9A%E4%B8%8D%E4%BC%9A%E6%9D%A5">我怀疑他会不会来</a>.<br />
I doubt he&#8217;ll come.</p></blockquote>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">So in summary, if huáiyí <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%80%80%E7%96%91">怀疑</a> is used:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 60px;">1. Before a &#8220;<strong>complete sentence</strong>&#8221; (independent clause), like &#8220;these numbers are all one person&#8217;s,&#8221; then it means &#8220;<strong>suspect</strong>&#8221; or &#8220;<strong>think</strong>.&#8221;</p>
<p style="padding-left: 60px;">2. By itself or before a &#8220;<strong>thing</strong>&#8221; (noun or dependent noun clause), like &#8220;what he said,&#8221; then it means &#8220;<strong>doubt</strong>.&#8221;</p>
<p style="padding-left: 60px;">3. Before a &#8220;<strong>verb not verb</strong>&#8221; phrase, like &#8220;tā huì bú huì lái <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BB%96%E4%BC%9A%E4%B8%8D%E4%BC%9A%E6%9D%A5">他会不会来</a>,&#8221; then it means &#8220;<strong>doubt</strong>&#8221; and you just get rid of the &#8220;not verb&#8221; (bú huì <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%B8%8D%E4%BC%9A">不会</a>) part.</p>
<p>If anyone else has a better way of keeping &#8220;doubt&#8221; and &#8220;suspect&#8221; straight, <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/doubt-harder-than-youd-suspect.htm#respond">I&#8217;m all ears</a>.</p>
<em>Similar Posts (computer generated):</em><ul><li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/a-bit-about-bu.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2008 September 14">A Bit about Bù 不</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/tennis-players-and-drummers.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2009 December 16">Tennis Players and Drummers</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/whats-that-zi-thing.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2006 December 6">What&#8217;s that &#8220;zi&#8221; 子 thing?</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/unnecessary-measure-words.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2009 July 28">Unnecessary Measure Words</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/my-one-friend.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2010 May 28">My One Friend</a></li>
</ul><!-- Similar Posts took 8.884 ms -->]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>bié 别 vs. bú yào 不要</title>
		<link>http://laowaichinese.net/bie-vs-bu-yao.htm</link>
		<comments>http://laowaichinese.net/bie-vs-bu-yao.htm#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 01:10:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Albert</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Explanations]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Vocabulary]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laowaichinese.net/?p=125</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In my last (real) post there was a whole lot of &#8220;bu yao-ing&#8221; going on to tell someone not to do something.  Well, now I&#8217;m going to ask a question that I feel I&#8217;ve never really gotten to the bottom of: What&#8217;s the difference between &#8220;bié&#8221; 别 do something and &#8220;bú yào&#8221; 不要 do something? [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my last (real) <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/a-bit-about-bu.htm">post</a> there was a whole lot of &#8220;bu yao-ing&#8221; going on to tell someone not to do something.  Well, now I&#8217;m going to ask a question that I feel I&#8217;ve never really gotten to the bottom of:</p>
<p><strong>What&#8217;s the difference between &#8220;bié&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%88%AB">别</a> do something and </strong><strong>&#8220;bú yào&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%B8%8D%E8%A6%81">不要</a> do something</strong><strong>? </strong></p>
<p>I&#8217;ve asked various <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/the-informant.htm">informants</a> over the years and gotten answers ranging from &#8220;there&#8217;s no difference&#8221; to &#8220;I can&#8217;t explain the difference&#8221; to &#8220;one of them is more formal&#8221; but disagreeing on which one is.  So now, I shall attempt to employ the power of the blogosphere to find out whether there is a difference and what that difference is.</p>
<p>To assist, I offer the following examples:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">A. bié shuōhuà le <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%88%AB%E8%AF%B4%E8%AF%9D%E4%BA%86">别说话了</a> = stop speaking / be quiet</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">B. bú yào shuōhuà le <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%B8%8D%E8%A6%81%E8%AF%B4%E8%AF%9D%E4%BA%86">不要说话了</a> = stop speaking / be quiet</p>
<p>Questions (for ya&#8217;ll):</p>
<p>1. Which one would an elementary teacher be more likely to say to a room full of noisy kids?</p>
<p>2. Which one would a friend be most likely to say to another friend when hiding during a game of hide and seek?</p>
<p>3. Which one would a mother say to comfort a crying daughter who keeps going on about the goldfish that just died?</p>
<p>4. Can anyone think of a situation or example where &#8220;bié&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%88%AB">别</a> do something would be ok but &#8220;bú yào&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%B8%8D%E8%A6%81">不要</a> do something wouldn&#8217;t?  Or vice versa?</p>
<p>5. When in doubt, which one should I use?</p>
<p>If you&#8217;ve got an idea, feel free to <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/bie-vs-bu-yao.htm#respond">weigh in</a> with your answers.  Let&#8217;s see just how muddy this water can get!</p>
<em>Similar Posts (computer generated):</em><ul><li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/unnecessary-measure-words.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2009 July 28">Unnecessary Measure Words</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/language-learning-is-messy-v-celebrate-your-mistakes.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2007 November 27">Language Learning is Messy V: Celebrate Your Mistakes</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/mates.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2006 December 25">Mates</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/language-learning-is-messy-iii-learn-what-you-need.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2007 November 5">Language Learning is Messy III: Learn What You Need</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/hey-thats-cheating-ok.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2010 July 6">Hey, That&#8217;s Cheating! OK?</a></li>
</ul><!-- Similar Posts took 8.151 ms -->]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>A Bit about Bù 不</title>
		<link>http://laowaichinese.net/a-bit-about-bu.htm</link>
		<comments>http://laowaichinese.net/a-bit-about-bu.htm#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 01:07:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Albert</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Explanations]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laowaichinese.net/?p=121</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As promised, here&#8217;s a little bit about how you have to be careful where you put your bù (不).  There are some tricky things that can throw you for a loop if you&#8217;re translating English into Chinese (which is what we all do when starting out learning the language).  I&#8217;m talking grammar (word order) today, [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As <a href="http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs/2008/06/the-qing-dynasty-on-talk-tv/#comment-965" target="_blank">promised</a>, here&#8217;s a little bit about how you have to be careful where you put your bù (<a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%B8%8D">不</a>).  There are some tricky things that can throw you for a loop if you&#8217;re translating English into Chinese (which is what we all do when starting out learning the language).  I&#8217;m talking grammar (word order) today, but don&#8217;t worry, there will be a lot of examples.  Let&#8217;s hear it for the Inductive Approach!</p>
<h3><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">He will not tell anyone =<br />
</span></strong></h3>
<p>Don&#8217;t succumb to the temptation to say:</p>
<ul>
<li><span style="color: #ff0000;">(*WRONG*) tā huì <strong>bú gàosu</strong> biérén <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BB%96%E4%BC%9A%E4%B8%8D%E5%91%8A%E8%AF%89%E5%88%AB%E4%BA%BA">他会不告诉别人</a> [he will not tell other-person] </span></li>
</ul>
<p>You&#8217;ve got to put the &#8220;bu&#8221; before the &#8220;hui&#8221; like this:</p>
<ul>
<li>tā <strong>bú huì </strong>gàosu biérén <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BB%96%E4%B8%8D%E4%BC%9A%E5%91%8A%E8%AF%89%E5%88%AB%E4%BA%BA">他不会告诉别人</a> [he not will tell other-person]</li>
</ul>
<h3><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>You shouldn&#8217;t tell her = </strong></span></h3>
<p>Same principle as above, don&#8217;t say:</p>
<ul>
<li><span style="color: #ff0000;">(*WRONG*) </span><span style="color: #ff0000;">nǐ yīnggāi <strong>bú gàosu</strong> tā <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BD%A0%E5%BA%94%E8%AF%A5%E4%B8%8D%E5%91%8A%E8%AF%89%E5%A5%B9">你应该不告诉她</a> [you should not tell her]<br />
</span></li>
</ul>
<p>Here&#8217;s the correct way:</p>
<ul>
<li>nǐ <strong>bù yīnggāi </strong>gàosu tā <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BD%A0%E4%B8%8D%E5%BA%94%E8%AF%A5%E5%91%8A%E8%AF%89%E5%A5%B9">你不应该告诉她</a> [you not should tell her]</li>
</ul>
<h3><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>He asked me not to tell anyone = </strong></span></h3>
<p>Perhaps you&#8217;re tempted to translate that as:</p>
<ul>
<li><span style="color: #ff0000;">(*WRONG*) tā ràng wǒ <strong>bú gàosu</strong> biérén <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BB%96%E8%AE%A9%E6%88%91%E4%B8%8D%E5%91%8A%E8%AF%89%E5%88%AB%E4%BA%BA">他让我不告诉别人</a> [he asked me not tell others]<br />
</span></li>
</ul>
<p>But no.  You&#8217;ve got to say:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">1. tā ràng wǒ <strong>bú yào gàosu</strong> biérén <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BB%96%E8%AE%A9%E6%88%91%E4%B8%8D%E8%A6%81%E5%91%8A%E8%AF%89%E5%88%AB%E4%BA%BA">他让我不要告诉别人</a> [he asked me not want tell others]</p>
<p>Or, if you prefer, you can say:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">2. tā <strong>bú ràng </strong>wǒ gàosu biérén <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BB%96%E4%B8%8D%E8%AE%A9%E6%88%91%E5%91%8A%E8%AF%89%E5%88%AB%E4%BA%BA">他不让我告诉别人</a> [he not let me tell others].</p>
<p>Numbers 1 and 2 are both gramatically correct but the meaning isn&#8217;t exactly the same.  Sentence number 2 really means: &#8220;He didn&#8217;t let me tell anyone.&#8221;  Because that pesky, <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/the-curse-of-the-convergent-concepts.htm">divergent</a> &#8220;ràng&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%AE%A9">让</a> can be translated into a <a href="http://hk.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?page=worddictbasic&amp;wdqb=c%3A%E8%AE%A9&amp;wdrst=0" target="_blank">bunch of words</a>, it means where you put your &#8220;bu&#8221; is important.  The other thing to point out here is that for imperatives (&#8220;You! Do something!&#8221;), actually we&#8217;re talking about negative imperatives (&#8220;You! Don&#8217;t do something!&#8221;) they like that &#8220;yào&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%A6%81">要</a> in there.</p>
<h3><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">The company hopes you don&#8217;t leave = </span></strong></h3>
<p>Getting away from gàosu <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%91%8A%E8%AF%89">告诉</a> for a moment, don&#8217;t translate the above as:</p>
<ul>
<li><span style="color: #ff0000;">(*WRONG*) gōngsī xīwàng nǐ </span><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">bù </span></strong><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>líkāi</strong> <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%85%AC%E5%8F%B8%E4%B8%8D%E5%B8%8C%E6%9C%9B%E4%BD%A0%E7%A6%BB%E5%BC%80">公司不希望你离开</a> [company hope you not leave]</span></li>
</ul>
<p>Rather, you&#8217;ve got to say:</p>
<ul>
<li><span style="color: #000000;">gōngsī <strong>bù xīwàng</strong> nǐ líkāi <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%85%AC%E5%8F%B8%E4%B8%8D%E5%B8%8C%E6%9C%9B%E4%BD%A0%E7%A6%BB%E5%BC%80">公司不希望你离开</a> [company not hope you leave]</span></li>
</ul>
<h3><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">I don&#8217;t think so =<br />
</span></strong></span></strong></h3>
<p>Here&#8217;s a situation where both ways are correct:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">1. wǒ <strong>bú rènwéi</strong> shì zhè yàng <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%88%91%E4%B8%8D%E8%AE%A4%E4%B8%BA%E6%98%AF%E8%BF%99%E6%A0%B7">我不认为是这样</a> [I not think is this way]</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">2. wǒ rènwéi <strong>bú shì</strong> zhè yàng <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%88%91%E8%AE%A4%E4%B8%BA%E4%B8%8D%E6%98%AF%E8%BF%99%E6%A0%B7">我认为不是这样</a> [I think not is this way]</p>
<p>It helped a lot when I found out both are ok.  But generally a Chinese person would say number 1.</p>
<h3><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>I don&#8217;t think he&#8217;s polite = </strong></span></h3>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">1. wǒ juéde tā bù lǐmào <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%88%91%E8%A7%89%E5%BE%97%E4%BB%96%E4%B8%8D%E7%A4%BC%E8%B2%8C">我觉得他不礼貌</a> [I think he not polite]</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">2. wǒ bù juéde tā lǐmào <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%88%91%E4%B8%8D%E8%A7%89%E5%BE%97%E4%BB%96%E7%A4%BC%E8%B2%8C">我不觉得他礼貌</a> [I not think he polite]</p>
<p>Apparently, both of these are correct as well, but the second one feels like the answer to a question (nǐ juéde tā lǐmào ma?)</p>
<h3><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">What did you learn today?</span></strong></h3>
<p>To summarize what&#8217;s going on in these examples, here are some of my own observations:</p>
<p>1. Usually you negate the first verb in a phrase, especially verbs that are modals in English (can, should, will, etc.).</p>
<p>2. When negating an imperative, be sure to make it &#8220;bú yào&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%B8%8D%E8%A6%81">不要</a> do something, (or you could use &#8220;bié&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%88%AB">别</a> do something).</p>
<p>Anyone else have <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/a-bit-about-bu.htm#respond">any tips</a> about this?</p>
<em>Similar Posts (computer generated):</em><ul><li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/stump-the-laowai-shu%c7%8elai-%e8%80%8d%e8%b5%96.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2009 March 3">Stump the Laowai: shuǎlài 耍赖</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/why-is-n%c7%8el%c7%90-%e5%93%aa%e9%87%8c-written-wrong.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2009 May 24">Why Is Nǎlǐ 哪里 Written Wrong?</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/my-one-friend.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2010 May 28">My One Friend</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/doubt-harder-than-youd-suspect.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2009 August 17">Doubt: Harder Than You&#8217;d Suspect</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/the-quest-for-anyway.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2007 April 2">The Quest for &#8220;Anyway&#8221;</a></li>
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		<title>Why does Chinese have measure words?</title>
		<link>http://laowaichinese.net/why-does-chinese-have-measure-words.htm</link>
		<comments>http://laowaichinese.net/why-does-chinese-have-measure-words.htm#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Dec 2006 04:37:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Albert</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Explanations]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laowaichinese.net/?p=41</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As I finished these measure word posts I had to ask myself (again), &#8220;Why does Chinese have all these darn measure words?&#8221; Is it like the tones, which seem to exist only to keep foreigners from learning Chinese? As I mention here, the &#8220;measure words &#8221; (liàngcí 量词) don&#8217;t really serve any linguistic purpose usually. [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I finished these measure word posts I had to ask myself (again), &#8220;Why does Chinese have all these darn measure words?&#8221;  Is it like the tones, which seem to exist only to keep foreigners from learning Chinese?  As I mention <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/top-10-measure-words-to-know.htm">here</a>, the &#8220;measure words &#8221; (liàngcí <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E9%87%8F%E8%AF%8D">量词</a>) don&#8217;t really serve any linguistic purpose usually.</p>
<p>So where did these measure words come from?  I have three theories.</p>
<h2>Theory 1</h2>
<p>Maybe the cave men were sitting around and they had a conversation like this:</p>
<p><em>Zhang Thor: Hey look! Big animal coming!</em></p>
<p><em>Li Ugg: What&#8217;s it called?</em></p>
<p><em>Thor: Me not know.</em></p>
<p><em>Ugg: Is it &#8220;long thin&#8221; kind?</em></p>
<p><em>Thor: No it&#8217;s &#8220;big sharp&#8221; kind.</em></p>
<p><em>Ugg: Oh. We should kill. Eat. Good.</em></p>
<p><em>Thor: Dui dui dui. Give me weapon.</em></p>
<p><em>Ugg: Which one?</em></p>
<p><em>Thor: Me not care.</em></p>
<p><em>Ugg: You want &#8220;small round&#8221; or &#8220;long pointy?&#8221;</em></p>
<p><em>Thor: &#8220;Long pointy.&#8221;<br />
</em><br />
Maybe that&#8217;s where they came from: &#8220;When categories ruled the language.&#8221;</p>
<h2>Theory 2</h2>
<p>Another idea I&#8217;ve had is that aristocrats and scholars wanted to show off their knowledge and created these measure words for their own entertainment and promotion.  Then it may have become a status symbol to show off how many of these esoteric words someone knew.</p>
<h2>Theory 3</h2>
<p>Or perhaps homonyms are to blame (just as I blame them in <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/whats-that-zi-thing.htm">my post about the &#8220;zi&#8221; 子 suffix</a>).  For example, if people disagreed on the right tone (as many dialects do), or maybe before there were tones, the measure words might have come in handy to differentiate stuff.</p>
<p><em>A: Hey I&#8217;m in the market for a new &#8220;ma.&#8221;</em></p>
<p><em>B: What?!  What&#8217;s wrong with your current mother?</em></p>
<p><em>A: No not &#8220;yi ge ma,&#8221; stupid.  &#8220;yi PI ma.&#8221;</em></p>
<p><em>B: Oh, why didn&#8217;t you say so! We&#8217;ve got these measure words, everyone&#8217;s life would be better if you&#8217;d just USE them.</em></p>
<p><em>A: Maybe if we add tones to our language.  That would help too&#8230;</em></p>
<p>But who knows how these measure words came into being?  If you do, leave a comment and tell me.</p>
<h2>By the way,</h2>
<p>if anyone tries to tell you &#8220;Hey! English has measure words too!&#8221; you can feel free to admit that, yes, it does indeed have one.  I only know of one (maybe two).</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not fair to call the &#8220;partitives&#8221; (like &#8220;a cup of water,&#8221; and &#8220;a sheet of paper&#8221;) measure words because they actually tell you how much of something you are talking about. We say &#8220;a loaf of bread&#8221; because we don&#8217;t want to talk about &#8220;a slice of bread.&#8221;  Chinese measure words do that sometimes too with container words (bēi <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%9D%AF">杯</a> = cup) and talking about paper (yì zhāng <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%B8%80%E5%BC%A0">一张</a> = 1 sheet, yí  fèn <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%B8%80%E4%BB%BD">一份</a> = 1 batch/stack)</p>
<p>But more often then not, the Chinese measure words are saying things like &#8220;1 small-round-thing peanut&#8221; (yí lì huāshēng <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%B8%80%E7%B2%92%E8%8A%B1%E7%94%9F">一粒花生</a> ).  Well in English we just say &#8220;1 peanut.&#8221;  If it&#8217;s a peanut, it&#8217;s a peanut, and we don&#8217;t have to add that extra word before we can count them. We say &#8220;a grain of sand&#8221; because we don&#8217;t mean &#8220;a bucket of sand.&#8221;</p>
<p>I guess you COULD say that &#8220;piece&#8221; is a measure word in English because &#8220;give me a chalk&#8221; doesn&#8217;t sound right and &#8220;give me a piece of chalk&#8221; does (because chalk is uncountable for some reason&#8211;maybe because it was originally powder&#8230;?). But for all countable nouns, the &#8220;piece&#8221; tells how much you want and could be omitted (&#8220;a piece of candy&#8221; = &#8220;a candy&#8221;) or is just wrong (&#8220;<strike>a piece of shirt</strike>&#8220;).</p>
<p>So besides &#8220;piece,&#8221; the only real measure word I know of in English, that serves no purpose whatsoever, is &#8220;10 <u>head</u> of cattle.&#8221;  Interestingly it&#8217;s the same word in Chinese.  But in English there is no reason at all for that &#8220;head&#8221; to be in there.  I don&#8217;t want to talk about the actual head or the beast.  It would four times the work to count cattle by the &#8220;hoof.&#8221;  So yes, you can admit that a &#8220;head count&#8221; is a sort of measure word in English.</p>
<p>English learners have to deal with countable and uncountable nouns&#8230;but that&#8217;s nowhere near the hassle of the Chinese measure words.  I&#8217;m done.</p>
<p><em>PS: This is the first post using hanzi characters.  I&#8217;ve added them because several people have requested hanzi be incorporated.  Please let me know through either a comment or <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/contact/">email</a> if you had any trouble displaying the hanzi or pinyin.  Thanks!</em><strong><br />
</strong></p>
<em>Similar Posts (computer generated):</em><ul><li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/which-measure-words-do-they-really-use.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2006 December 17">Which measure words do they really use?</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/unnecessary-measure-words.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2009 July 28">Unnecessary Measure Words</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/top-10-measure-words-to-know.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2006 December 12">Top 10 measure words to know</a></li>

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<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/stuff-you-might-be-hearing-shopping.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2007 January 4">Stuff you might be hearing &#8211; Shopping</a></li>
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		<title>Which measure words do they really use?</title>
		<link>http://laowaichinese.net/which-measure-words-do-they-really-use.htm</link>
		<comments>http://laowaichinese.net/which-measure-words-do-they-really-use.htm#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Dec 2006 05:26:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Albert</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Explanations]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Listening]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Vocabulary]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laowaichinese.net/?p=40</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[See also: Top 10 measure words to know As a friend who recently arrived in China said, &#8220;Yes but do they really USE all of those measure words?&#8221; I don&#8217;t know about all. But yes, unfortunately, they do use a great deal of them. These are all the measure words I have heard in natural [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See also: <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/top-10-measure-words-to-know.htm">Top 10 measure words to know</a></p>
<p>As a friend who recently arrived in China said, &#8220;Yes but do they really USE all of those measure words?&#8221; I don&#8217;t know about all. But yes, unfortunately, they do use a great deal of them.</p>
<p>These are all the measure words I have heard in natural conversation. Maybe not worth memorizing, but as one learns to speak Chinese, and especially for listening, they&#8217;re certainly worth being able to recognize (I can get stumped pretty easily when I hear a seemingly out of place word). ll also give the context I heard the word used in.</p>
<p>If you want to know what other things that measure word applies to, I suggest consulting the back of <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/chubby-best-paper-dictionary-first-year.htm">Chubby</a> or some other measure word reference.</p>
<h3>Measure word &gt; for what kind of thing</h3>
<ol>
<li>bǎ <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%8A%8A">把</a> &gt; stuff with handles (knives), chairs
<ul>
<li>qǐng lái sān bǎ sháozi <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%AF%B7%E6%9D%A5%E4%B8%89%E6%8A%8A%E5%8B%BA%E5%AD%90">请来三把勺子</a>= please bring 3 spoons</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>bān <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E7%8F%AD">班</a> &gt; scheduled transportation
<ul>
<li>zhè bānxiào chē shì bú shì zuì hòu yì bān? <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%BF%99%E7%8F%AD%E6%A0%A1%E8%BD%A6%E6%98%AF%E4%B8%8D%E6%98%AF%E6%9C%80%E5%90%8E%E4%B8%80%E7%8F%AD%EF%BC%9F">这班校车是不是最后一班？</a>= Is this the last school bus?</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>běn <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%9C%AC">本</a> &gt; bound stuff (books, magazines)
<ul>
<li>wǒ yǒu sān běn cídiǎn <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%88%91%E6%9C%89%E4%B8%89%E6%9C%AC%E8%BE%9E%E5%85%B8">我有三本辞典</a>= I have 3 dictionaries</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>bǐ <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E7%AC%94">笔</a> &gt; sums of money
<ul>
<li>wǒ bìxū huā yì bǐ qián <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%88%91%E5%BF%85%E9%A1%BB%E8%8A%B1%E4%B8%80%E7%AC%94%E9%92%B1">我必须花一笔钱</a>= I have to pay a sum of money</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>bù <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E9%83%A8">部</a> &gt; cell phones, sequels of a book/movie
<ul>
<li>nǐ wèishénme yǒu liǎng bù shǒujī? <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BD%A0%E4%B8%BA%E4%BB%80%E4%B9%88%E6%9C%89%E4%B8%A4%E9%83%A8%E6%89%8B%E6%9C%BA%EF%BC%9F">你为什么有两部手机？</a>= Why do you have 2 cell phones?</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>duàn <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%AE%B5">段</a> &gt; sections of long stuff, parts of songs
<ul>
<li>yí duàn fěnbǐ <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%B8%80%E6%AE%B5%E7%B2%89%E7%AC%94">一段粉笔</a>= a piece of chalk</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>duǒ <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%9C%B5">朵</a> &gt; flowers
<ul>
<li>I can&#8217;t remember the sentence, but it was definitely about flowers.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>fèn <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BB%BD">份</a> &gt; bundles/batches (servings of food, multi-page documents)
<ul>
<li>yào jǐ fèn? <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%A6%81%E5%87%A0%E4%BB%BD">要几份</a>= How many servings (do you) want?</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>jiā <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%AE%B6">家</a> &gt; stores
<ul>
<li>zhège chéngshì yǒu jǐ jiā wòěrmǎ? <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%BF%99%E4%B8%AA%E5%9F%8E%E5%B8%82%E6%9C%89%E5%87%A0%E5%AE%B6%E6%B2%83%E5%B0%94%E7%8E%9B%EF%BC%9F">这个城市有几家沃尔玛？</a>= How many Walmarts does this city have?</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>jiān <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E9%97%B4">间</a> &gt; rooms, houses (one room)
<ul>
<li>zhège xuéxiào de sùshè jǐ gè rén yì jiān? <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%BF%99%E4%B8%AA%E5%AD%A6%E6%A0%A1%E7%9A%84%E5%AE%BF%E8%88%8D%E5%87%A0%E4%B8%AA%E4%BA%BA%E4%B8%80%E9%97%B4">这个学校的宿舍几个人一间</a> = How many people are there in one dorm room at this school?</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>jiàn <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BB%B6">件</a> &gt; shirts
<ul>
<li>yí cì zuì duō zhǐ néng ná sān jiàn <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%B8%80%E6%AC%A1%E6%9C%80%E5%A4%9A%E5%8F%AA%E8%83%BD%E6%8B%BF%E4%B8%89%E4%BB%B6">一次最多只能拿三件</a>= the most you can take at one time is 3 (shirts)<br />
*what the girl at the fitting rooms said</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>jiǎng <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%AE%B2">讲</a> &gt; long (usually 2 hour) class periods that may include a break (as opposed to &#8220;jié&#8221;)
<ul>
<li>jīntiān nǐ yǒu jǐ jiǎng kè <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BB%8A%E5%A4%A9%E4%BD%A0%E6%9C%89%E5%87%A0%E8%AE%B2%E8%AF%BE%EF%BC%9F">今天你有几讲课？</a>= How many classes do you have today?</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>jié <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%8A%82">节</a> &gt; 1 hour class periods
<ul>
<li>jīntiān nǐ yǒu jǐ jié kè<a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%EF%BC%9F%E4%BB%8A%E5%A4%A9%E4%BD%A0%E6%9C%89%E5%87%A0%E8%8A%82%E8%AF%BE%EF%BC%9F">？今天你有几节课？</a>= How many hours of class do you have today?</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>jù <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%8F%A5">句</a> &gt; sentences
<ul>
<li>wǒ zhǐ huì shuō yí jù Kūnmíng huà <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%88%91%E5%8F%AA%E4%BC%9A%E8%AF%B4%E4%B8%80%E5%8F%A5%E6%98%86%E6%98%8E%E8%AF%9D">我只会说一句昆明话</a>= I can only say one sentence of the Kunming dialect</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>kē <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%A3%B5">棵</a> &gt; trees
<ul>
<li>jīntiān wǒmen zhòng le èrshí kē shū <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BB%8A%E5%A4%A9%E6%88%91%E4%BB%AC%E7%A7%8D%E4%BA%86%E4%BA%8C%E5%8D%81%E6%A3%B5%E6%A0%91">今天我们种了二十棵树</a>= today we planted 20 trees</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>kǒu <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%8F%A3">口</a> &gt; people, family members
<ul>
<li>nǐ de jiā yǒu jǐ kǒu rén <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BD%A0%E7%9A%84%E5%AE%B6%E6%9C%89%E5%87%A0%E5%8F%A3%E4%BA%BA%EF%BC%9F">你的家有几口人？</a>= How many people are there in your family?<br />
*you could also use &#8220;ge <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%B8%AA">个</a>&#8221;</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>kuài <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%9D%97">块</a> &gt; chunks of tofu/yuan money
<ul>
<li>ná yí kuài dòufu <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%8B%BF%E4%B8%80%E5%9D%97%E8%B1%86%E8%85%90">拿一块豆腐</a>= I&#8217;ll take one piece of tofu</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>lèi <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E7%B1%BB">类</a> &gt; kinds of people
<ul>
<li>wǒmen shì yí lèi rén <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%88%91%E4%BB%AC%E6%98%AF%E4%B8%80%E7%B1%BB%E4%BA%BA">我们是一类人</a>= we are (the same) one kind of person</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>lì <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E7%B2%92">粒</a> &gt; small round stuff
<ul>
<li>wǒ shènzhì bù néng chī yí lì huāshēng <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%88%91%E7%94%9A%E8%87%B3%E4%B8%8D%E8%83%BD%E5%90%83%E4%B8%80%E7%B2%92%E8%8A%B1%E7%94%9F">我甚至不能吃一粒花生</a>= I can&#8217;t even eat one peanut</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>liàng <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%BE%86">辆</a> &gt; vehicles with wheels (but not trains)
<ul>
<li>wǒ yǒu liǎng liàng zìxíngchē <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%88%91%E6%9C%89%E4%B8%A4%E8%BE%86%E8%87%AA%E8%A1%8C%E8%BD%A6">我有两辆自行车</a>= I have 2 bicycles</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>mén <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E9%97%A8">门</a> &gt; subjects (academic)
<ul>
<li>nàge kǎoshì yǒu sān mén <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E9%82%A3%E4%B8%AA%E8%80%83%E8%AF%95%E6%9C%89%E4%B8%89%E9%97%A8">那个考试有三门</a>= that test has 3 subjects<br />
*e.g. math, English, history</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>miàn <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E9%9D%A2">面</a> &gt; mirrors
<ul>
<li>wǒ xiǎng mǎi yí miàn xiǎo jìngzi <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%88%91%E6%83%B3%E4%B9%B0%E4%B8%80%E9%9D%A2%E5%B0%8F%E9%95%9C%E5%AD%90">我想买一面小镜子</a>= I want to by a small mirror</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>pái <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%8E%92">排</a> &gt; rows of seats, lines of people
<ul>
<li>zhàn chéng yì pái! <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E7%AB%99%E6%88%90%E4%B8%80%E6%8E%92%EF%BC%81">站成一排！</a>= line up! [stand become 1 line]</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>pǐ <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%8C%B9">匹</a> &gt; horses
<ul>
<li>yì pǐ mǎ gòulái le <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%B8%80%E5%8C%B9%E9%A9%AC%E8%BF%87%E6%9D%A5%E4%BA%86">一匹马过来了</a>= a horse came over<br />
*from a children&#8217;s story</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>piàn <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E7%89%87">片</a> &gt; slices, expanses (like clouds, beaches)
<ul>
<li>yí piàn ròu <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%B8%80%E7%89%87%E8%82%89">一片肉</a>= a slice of meat</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>shēng <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%A3%B0">声</a> &gt; utterances, sounds
<ul>
<li>wǒ yào <u>xiān</u> duì nǐ shuō yì shēng &#8220;xièxie&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%88%91%E8%A6%81%E5%85%88%E5%AF%B9%E4%BD%A0%E8%AF%B4%E4%B8%80%E5%A3%B0">我要先对你说一声</a>“<a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%B0%A2%E8%B0%A2">谢谢</a>”= I want to say &#8220;thanks&#8221; <u>in advance</u></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>shǒu <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E9%A6%96">首</a> &gt; songs, poems
<ul>
<li>zhè shǒu gē shì shéi de? <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%BF%99%E9%A6%96%E6%AD%8C%E6%98%AF%E8%B0%81%E7%9A%84%EF%BC%9F">这首歌是谁的？</a>= Who&#8217;s song is this?<br />
*this is how I ask about the music blasting over the speakers on campus</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>shuāng <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%8F%8C">双</a> &gt; pairs (chopsticks, shoes, eyes)
<ul>
<li>wǒ yào mǎi sān shuāng tuōxié <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%88%91%E8%A6%81%E4%B9%B0%E4%B8%89%E5%8F%8C%E6%8B%96%E9%9E%8B">我要买三双拖鞋</a>= I want to buy 3 pairs of slippers.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>tái <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%8F%B0">台</a> &gt; big electric stuff, pianos
<ul>
<li>wǒ yǒu yì tái xǐyījī <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%88%91%E6%9C%89%E4%B8%80%E5%8F%B0%E6%B4%97%E8%A1%A3%E6%9C%BA">我有一台洗衣机</a>= I have a washing machine</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>tào <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%A5%97">套</a> &gt; apartments, houses (multiple rooms)
<ul>
<li>nàbian de fángzi yào duōshao qián yí tào? <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E9%82%A3%E8%BE%B9%E7%9A%84%E6%88%BF%E5%AD%90%E8%A6%81%E5%A4%9A%E5%B0%91%E9%92%B1%E4%B8%80%E5%A5%97%EF%BC%9F">那边的房子要多少钱一套？</a>= Those houses cost how much per house?</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>tiáo <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%9D%A1">条</a> &gt; roads, long stuff (rivers, snakes, pants)
<ul>
<li>zhè tiáo lù jiào shénme míngzi <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%BF%99%E6%9D%A1%E8%B7%AF%E5%8F%AB%E4%BB%80%E4%B9%88%E5%90%8D%E5%AD%97%EF%BC%9F">这条路叫什么名字？</a>= What&#8217;s this road called?</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>tóu <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%A4%B4">头</a> &gt; pigs, cows
<ul>
<li>yì tóu máoniú <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%B8%80%E5%A4%B4%E7%89%A6%E7%89%9B">一头牦牛</a>= one yak</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>wèi <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BD%8D">位</a> &gt; people (polite)
<ul>
<li>jǐ wèi <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%87%A0%E4%BD%8D">几位</a>= How many people?<br />
*in your party at a restaurant</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>zhāng <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%BC%A0">张</a> &gt; flat stuff (pieces of paper, tables, CDs)
<ul>
<li>ná shí zhāng kòngbái de CD <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%8B%BF%E5%8D%81%E5%BC%A0%E7%A9%BA%E7%99%BD%E7%9A%84">拿十张空白的</a>CD= I&#8217;ll take 10 blank CDs</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>zhī <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%8F%AA">只</a> &gt; cats, birds
<ul>
<li>&#8220;liǎng zhī lǎohǔ <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%B8%A4%E5%8F%AA%E8%80%81%E8%99%8E">两只老虎</a>&#8221; = &#8220;2 tigers&#8221; (sung to the tune of &#8220;Frere Jacques&#8221;)</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>zhī <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%8F%AA">只</a> &gt; one of a pair
<ul>
<li>bā zhī yǎnjing <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%85%AB%E5%8F%AA%E7%9C%BC%E7%9D%9B">八只眼睛</a>= 8 Eyes<br />
*the name of a 4 person singing group</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>zhī <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%94%AF">支</a> &gt; stick-like stuff (pen, chopstick, shoe, eye)
<ul>
<li>yì zhī bǐ bú gòu <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%B8%80%E6%94%AF%E7%AD%B7%E5%AD%90%E4%B8%8D%E5%A4%9F">一支筷子不够</a>= 1 pen isn&#8217;t enough</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>zhǒng <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E7%A7%8D">种</a> &gt; types of stuff
<ul>
<li>yǒu liǎng zhǒng júzi <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%9C%89%E4%B8%A4%E7%A7%8D%E6%A1%94%E5%AD%90">有两种桔子</a>= there are 2 kinds of oranges</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>zuò <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%BA%A7">座</a> &gt; mountains
<ul>
<li>zhōngguó zuì yǒumíng de sān zuò shān <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%B8%AD%E5%9B%BD%E6%9C%80%E6%9C%89%E5%90%8D%E7%9A%84%E4%B8%89%E5%BA%A7%E5%B1%B1">中国最有名的三座山</a>= China&#8217;s 3 most famous mountains</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ol>
<p>NOTE: There are a few other measure words for &#8220;times&#8221; and &#8220;money&#8221; that I left off this list but have been included in my <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/top-10-measure-words-to-know.htm">previous post</a>.</p>
<em>Similar Posts (computer generated):</em><ul><li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/top-10-measure-words-to-know.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2006 December 12">Top 10 measure words to know</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/stuff-you-might-be-hearing-restaurants.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2006 November 24">Stuff you might be hearing &#8211; Restaurants</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/unnecessary-measure-words.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2009 July 28">Unnecessary Measure Words</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/why-does-chinese-have-measure-words.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2006 December 18">Why does Chinese have measure words?</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/stuff-you-might-be-hearing-shopping.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2007 January 4">Stuff you might be hearing &#8211; Shopping</a></li>
</ul><!-- Similar Posts took 8.541 ms -->]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://laowaichinese.net/which-measure-words-do-they-really-use.htm/feed</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>21</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>What&#8217;s that &#8220;zi&#8221; 子 thing?</title>
		<link>http://laowaichinese.net/whats-that-zi-thing.htm</link>
		<comments>http://laowaichinese.net/whats-that-zi-thing.htm#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Dec 2006 04:03:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Albert</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Explanations]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laowaichinese.net/?p=35</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You may have noticed that a whole lot of words end with a neutral toned &#8220;zi 子.&#8221; What does that &#8220;zi 子&#8221; thing mean? I think it means just that: &#8220;a thing.&#8221; This is only my theory, but I think because the Chinese language is a homonym minefield that has so few possible syllables, they [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You may have noticed that a whole lot of words end with a neutral toned &#8220;zi <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%AD%90">子</a>.&#8221; What does that &#8220;zi <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%AD%90">子</a>&#8221; thing mean? I think it means just that: &#8220;a thing.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is only my theory, but I think because the Chinese language is a homonym minefield that has so few possible syllables, they needed a way to distinguish nouns from other words. So, when a noun appears in its isolated form, they seem to like to add a &#8220;zi <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%AD%90">子</a>&#8221; as a sort of noun-making suffix. This seems to only be done to one-syllable words because, I imagine, the very presence of a second syllable (like in &#8220;píngguǒ <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%8B%B9%E6%9E%9C">苹果</a>= &#8220;apple&#8221;) gives the necessary context for people to know it&#8217;s a noun.</p>
<p>For example:</p>
<ol>
<li><span class="pinyin">zhuōzi <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%A1%8C%E5%AD%90">桌子</a>= table<br />
</span></li>
<li><span class="pinyin">shuāzi <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%88%B7%E5%AD%90">刷子</a>= brush<br />
</span></li>
<li><span class="pinyin">chēzi <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%BD%A6%E5%AD%90">车子</a>= vehicle</span></li>
</ol>
<p>(it&#8217;s just a coincidence that my 3 examples are all first tone words)</p>
<p>But, you&#8217;ll notice when it&#8217;s put in a compound word, the &#8220;zi&#8221; drops off:</p>
<ol>
<li><span class="pinyin"></span><span class="pinyin"></span><span class="pinyin">pīngpāngzhuō <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%B9%92%E4%B9%93%E6%A1%8C">乒乓桌</a>= ping-pong table </span><span class="pinyin"><br />
</span></li>
<li><span class="pinyin"></span><span class="pinyin">yáshuā <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E7%89%99%E5%88%B7">牙刷</a>= toothbrush<br />
</span></li>
<li><span class="pinyin">zìxíngchē <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%87%AA%E8%A1%8C%E8%BD%A6">自行车</a></span><span class="pinyin">= bicycle<br />
</span></li>
</ol>
<p>Often, if I leave off &#8220;zi <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%AD%90">子</a>&#8221; when I&#8217;m supposed to say it, or if I say it when I don&#8217;t need it, it doesn&#8217;t really cause a problem. But for now, my working hypothesis is: The Chinese language is one-syllable-noun-a-phobic.</p>
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		<title>Where do I put the tone marks in pinyin words?</title>
		<link>http://laowaichinese.net/where-do-i-put-the-tone-marks-in-pinyin-words.htm</link>
		<comments>http://laowaichinese.net/where-do-i-put-the-tone-marks-in-pinyin-words.htm#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Sep 2006 10:15:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Albert</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Explanations]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laowaichinese.net/?p=9</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In my first year of studying Chinese I learned (by doing it wrong in front of Chinese friends) that there are rules for where to put tone markings in words with more than one vowel. The official rules, according to Mark Swofford&#8217;s very helpful site, are: A and e trump all other vowels and always [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span style="font-family: arial">In my first year of studying Chinese I learned (by doing it wrong in front of Chinese friends) that there are rules for where to put tone markings in words with more than one vowel.</span> <span style="font-family: arial">The </span><a href="http://pinyin.info/rules/where.html" style="font-family: arial" target="_blank">official rules</a><span style="font-family: arial">, according to Mark Swofford&#8217;s very helpful site, are:</span></p>
<ul style="font-family: arial">
<li><em>A</em> and <em>e</em> trump all other vowels and <em>always</em> take the tone mark. There are no Mandarin syllables in Hanyu Pinyin that contain both <em>a</em> and <em>e</em>.</li>
<li>In the combination <em>ou</em>, <em>o</em> takes the mark.</li>
<li>In all other cases, the final vowel takes the mark.</li>
</ul>
<p><span style="font-family: arial">But I noticed the craziest little pattern. If you want to remember only one rule and one exception think of it like this:</span></p>
<ul style="font-family: arial">
<li>Alphabetical order dictates which letter gets the tone mark. (if it&#8217;s &#8220;biāo&#8221; then the &#8220;a&#8221; is alphabetically first, so give it the tone mark)</li>
<li>The only exception I&#8217;ve found is the &#8220;iu&#8221; combination. In this case the &#8220;u&#8221; gets the mark even though it&#8217;s alphabetically after &#8220;i&#8221;</li>
<li>Oh wait, there is another rather rare exception and that&#8217;s &#8220;io&#8221; combination (&#8220;o&#8221; get&#8217;s the mark&#8221;)</li>
</ul>
<p><span style="font-family: arial">So here&#8217;s the way I remember it:</span></p>
<ul style="font-family: arial">
<li>&#8220;duì <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%AF%B9">对</a>&#8221; in Chinese means &#8220;correct,&#8221; so the alphabetical rule is correct for that word</li>
<li>&#8220;diū <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%B8%A2">丢</a>&#8221; in Chinese means &#8220;to lose,&#8221; so the alphabetical rule has lost it&#8217;s integrity (and face) for that word</li>
<li>Since &#8220;io&#8221; is also an exception (xiōngdì <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%85%84%E5%BC%9F">兄弟</a>), &#8220;I owe&#8221; everyone an apology for saying there was only one exception</li>
</ul>
<p><span style="font-family: arial">Still, since the &#8220;io&#8221; combo is very rare, and the &#8220;ui&#8221; and &#8220;iu&#8221; combos are easy to watch for, I&#8217;ve found the alphabetical rule to be the easiest to remember and use.</span></p>
<em>Similar Posts (computer generated):</em><ul><li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/tone-changes.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2007 August 23">Tone Changes</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/how-to-type-pinyin-pinyin-with-tone-markings.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2006 September 19">How to type pinyin (pīnyīn) with tone markings</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/better-mandarin-tones-diagram.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2009 September 13">Better Mandarin Tones Diagram</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/why-is-n%c7%8el%c7%90-%e5%93%aa%e9%87%8c-written-wrong.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2009 May 24">Why Is Nǎlǐ 哪里 Written Wrong?</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/color-coded-tones-on-mdbg.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2009 March 14">Colored Tones on MDBG</a></li>
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