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	<title>Laowai Chinese 老外中文 &#187; Rants</title>
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		<title>Linguistic Laughingstock-a-phobia</title>
		<link>http://laowaichinese.net/linguistic-laughingstock-a-phobia.htm</link>
		<comments>http://laowaichinese.net/linguistic-laughingstock-a-phobia.htm#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Nov 2011 00:53:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Albert</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Rants]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laowaichinese.net/?p=1999</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[WARNING: This post contains explicit content because the Chinese language contains explicit content and we sometimes say it without meaning to. Fear of getting laughed at (not with) is a common affective problem for language learners. While there&#8217;s no escaping it in any language, there are a few reasons why Chinese is especially nerve-wracking to learn. [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>WARNING: This post contains explicit content because the Chinese language contains explicit content and we sometimes say it without meaning to.</strong></span></p>
<p>Fear of getting laughed <em>at</em> (not with) is a common <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-language_acquisition#Affective_factors" target="_blank">affective</a> problem for language learners. While there&#8217;s no escaping it in any language, there are a few reasons why Chinese is especially nerve-wracking to learn.</p>
<h3>1. Getting the Tone Wrong</h3>
<p>I still remember my first traumatic experience in this realm. It was a coldish day in winter during my first few months in China. I was teaching a class of 40 students and asked a girl, in Chinese, if she had a pen&#8230;or so I thought.</p>
<p>I meant to say:</p>
<ul>
<li>nǐ yǒu bǐ ma? <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BD%A0%E6%9C%89%E7%AC%94%E5%90%97">你有笔吗</a>? = Do you have a pen?</li>
</ul>
<p>The whole class erupted into laughter and the girl&#8217;s face turned bright red. I knew something was wrong, but no one would tell me what. It wasn&#8217;t until some time later that I guessed I&#8217;d actually said:</p>
<ul>
<li>nǐ yǒu bī ma? <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BD%A0%E6%9C%89%E5%B1%84%E5%90%97">你有屄吗</a>? = Do you have a c*nt?</li>
</ul>
<p>Now people. Seriously. Getting three 3rd tones in a row right is hard under any circumstances. Not to mention the fact that I&#8217;d only been in China a matter of months. Also, considering the <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/tone-wars.htm" target="_blank">tone wars</a> that inevitably go on in non-Chinese speakers&#8217; heads, I&#8217;m sure I emphasized &#8220;pen&#8221; like I would have in English (which probably is what lead to my saying the first tone).</p>
<p>Needless to say, I&#8217;ve never really recovered from that. When talking about pens now, I always add the measure word (zhī <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%94%AF">支</a>) and I just refuse to use the word bī <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E9%80%BC">逼</a>, meaning &#8220;to force&#8221; (I always use qiǎngpò <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%BC%BA%E8%BF%AB">强迫</a>). And that&#8217;s just one of many examples.</p>
<p>A new teacher who just arrived in China told me yesterday he&#8217;s terrified of ordering boiled dumplings (shuǐ jiǎo <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%B0%B4%E9%A5%BA">水饺</a>) because he was told he&#8217;s been saying &#8220;sleep&#8221; (shuì jiào <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E7%9D%A1%E8%A7%89">睡觉</a>). Even though context <em>should</em> help him out, he&#8217;s still shaken up.</p>
<h3>2. Getting the Tone Right</h3>
<p>Because of the huge number of homonyms in Chinese, even when I get the tone right, I&#8217;m laughed at by some immature people (remember I work with college students) who want to mock me or someone else.</p>
<p>For example, one of my student&#8217;s name is chún <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E7%BA%AF">纯</a> (&#8220;pure&#8221;). But even when I say it right (by now I can tell if I&#8217;ve nailed the tone), I hear giggles ripple through the class as her classmates say chǔn <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%83%B7">惷</a> (&#8220;stupid&#8221;) to each other.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve also got several students named xiǎo zhū <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%B0%8F%E7%8F%A0">小珠</a> (&#8220;little pearl&#8221;). Inevitably, I&#8217;ll hear giggles as the students repeat <em>exactly</em> what I said (tones and all) but simply <em>think</em> of xiǎo zhū <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%B0%8F%E7%8C%AA">小猪</a> (&#8220;little pig&#8221;).</p>
<p>There&#8217;s nothing I can do about these. It&#8217;s not like when a student of English mispronounces &#8220;six o&#8217;clock&#8221; and it comes out &#8220;sex o&#8217;clock.&#8221; That would no doubt get a few giggles in an American college class too. The problem is when I say it <em>exactly</em> right and it still causes laughter. It&#8217;s just the nature of the language.</p>
<h3>3. Switcheroo Words</h3>
<p>Because of my mild dyslexia, I live on constant fear of &#8220;briefcase,&#8221; &#8220;honey,&#8221; and &#8220;marriage.&#8221; I&#8217;ve already <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/language-learning-is-messy-v-celebrate-your-mistakes.htm">written briefly</a> about these and advised us to try to enjoy the silliness of our mistakes. Once they happen, that&#8217;s absolutely the best approach. But the fear of making them again can be very detrimental to the learning process.</p>
<h3>4. Double Entendres (aka Chinese people get laughed at too)</h3>
<p>This past week, two things happened that have encouraged me in my laughingstock-a-phobia.</p>
<p><strong>Story 1</strong></p>
<p>A Chinese student of mine went into the cafeteria and told the worker she wanted some rice. She said simply:</p>
<ul>
<li>yào fàn <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%A6%81%E9%A5%AD">要饭</a> = I want rice</li>
</ul>
<p>She said the other Chinese students who heard her burst into laughter because that also means &#8220;to beg.&#8221; I asked her how she felt at that time. &#8220;Embarrassed,&#8221; she told me with a serious face. She was not relating this story to show how funny it had been but rather how bad it had made her feel. I sympathized with her. Just to remind you: she&#8217;s a native speaker of Chinese. But because the characters &#8220;want rice&#8221; also mean &#8220;to beg,&#8221; she was not allowed to ask for rice in that way without receiving ridicule from her peers.</p>
<p><strong>Story 2</strong></p>
<p>On Monday night I was the only foreigner in a little gathering of Chinese students and teachers. One boy shared some advice his mother had given him. A 60-year-old Chinese lady wanted to say she really like the advice of his mother. She said:</p>
<ul>
<li>wǒ juéde tā mā de jiànyì&#8211; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%88%91%E8%A7%89%E5%BE%97%E4%BB%96%E5%A6%88%E7%9A%84%E5%BB%BA%E8%AE%AE">我觉得他妈的建议</a>&#8211; = I think his mother&#8217;s advice&#8212;</li>
</ul>
<div>And was interrupted by uproarious laughter. She immediately realized what had happened and put her hand to her mouth and started laughing too.</div>
<p>Because tā mā <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BB%96%E5%A6%88">他妈</a> and tā mā de <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BB%96%E5%A6%88%E7%9A%84">他妈的</a> are curse words in Chinese, she was not allowed to use perfectly good grammar and vocabulary to say what she wanted to say. Instead, she amended her sentence to be:</p>
<ul>
<li>wǒ juéde tā <strong>māma</strong> de jiànyì&#8230; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%88%91%E8%A7%89%E5%BE%97%E4%BB%96">我觉得他</a><strong><a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%A6%88%E5%A6%88">妈妈</a></strong><a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E7%9A%84%E5%BB%BA%E8%AE%AE">的建议</a>&#8230; = I think his mother&#8217;s advice&#8230;</li>
</ul>
<p>Amazing how that extra syllable is the difference between laughter and an otherwise serious discussion.</p>
<p><strong>Story 3</strong></p>
<p>Oh I just can&#8217;t help myself! I&#8217;m on a roll.</p>
<p>In my first year in China, a student told me he&#8217;d gone to get some photos developed and the worker wanted to ask him if he wanted them in a kind of cardboard carrying thing to protect them. The worker said:</p>
<ul>
<li>yào bú yào ānquán tào? <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%A6%81%E4%B8%8D%E8%A6%81%E5%AE%89%E5%85%A8%E5%A5%97">要不要安全套</a>? = Do you want a protective case?</li>
</ul>
<p>Being the kind of guy my student was, he started laughing and said:</p>
<ul>
<li> gěi wǒ gè bìyùn tào <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E7%BB%99%E6%88%91%E4%B8%AA%E9%81%BF%E5%AD%95%E5%A5%97">给我个避孕套</a> = Give me a condom.</li>
</ul>
<p>The worker was embarrassed because she had actually said &#8220;condom&#8221; (ānquán tào <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%AE%89%E5%85%A8%E5%A5%97">安全套</a>) even though she hadn&#8217;t meant it that way.</p>
<h3>Conclusion</h3>
<p>Learning Chinese is scary. You never know when you might say something wrong. The more pitfalls we can know about ahead of time the better we&#8217;ll be at avoiding them. But even native speakers can&#8217;t avoid all of them.</p>
<p>Any other examples are welcome in the <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/linguistic-laughingstock-a-phobia.htm#respond">comments section</a>.</p>
<em>Similar Posts (computer generated):</em><ul><li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/stump-the-laowai-wunai.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2009 October 6">Stump the Laowai: wúnài 无奈</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/language-learning-is-messy-v-celebrate-your-mistakes.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2007 November 27">Language Learning is Messy V: Celebrate Your Mistakes</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/beware-of-false-friends.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2008 October 2">Beware of False Friends</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/stump-the-laowai-shanghu%c7%92-%e4%b8%8a%e7%81%ab.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2009 April 12">Stump the Laowai: shànghuǒ 上火</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/stating-the-obvious.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2007 April 25">Stating the Obvious</a></li>
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		<title>What&#8217;s up with Persuade?</title>
		<link>http://laowaichinese.net/whats-up-with-persuade.htm</link>
		<comments>http://laowaichinese.net/whats-up-with-persuade.htm#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Jan 2011 01:11:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Albert</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Rants]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laowaichinese.net/?p=1887</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Another post from the ranting &#8220;What&#8217;s up with&#8230;?&#8221; series that focuses on vocabulary words we can&#8217;t quite get a straight answer about. Look in the dictionary for &#8220;persuade&#8221; and you basically end up with: shuōfú 说服 quàn 劝 Now, let&#8217;s ignore (for this whole post) the fact that these words often mean &#8220;try to persuade&#8221; [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Another post from the ranting &#8220;What&#8217;s up with&#8230;?&#8221; series that focuses on vocabulary words we can&#8217;t quite get a straight answer about.</em></p>
<p>Look in the dictionary for &#8220;persuade&#8221; and you basically end up with:</p>
<ul>
<li>shuōfú <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%AF%B4%E6%9C%8D">说服</a></li>
<li>quàn <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%8A%9D">劝</a></li>
</ul>
<p>Now, let&#8217;s ignore (for this whole post) the fact that these words often mean &#8220;try to persuade&#8221; and talk about the following two statements that native speakers around me insist on:</p>
<h3>1. &#8220;We don&#8217;t use shuōfú <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%AF%B4%E6%9C%8D">说服</a>. That&#8217;s more of a formal / written form.&#8221;</h3>
<p>They claim to prefer quàn <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%8A%9D">劝</a> in spoken Chinese. It would be nice if the dictionaries mentioned that, but I&#8217;m actually not even convinced it&#8217;s true. I&#8217;d like to hear what other people from other parts of the country (I&#8217;m in Guangzhou) have to say on this matter (please <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/whats-up-with-persuade.htm#respond">leave comments here</a>).</p>
<h3>2. &#8220;And besides, <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%AF%B4%E6%9C%8D">说服</a> is really pronounced &#8216;shuìfú&#8217;. So &#8216;shuōfú&#8217; is a mistake.</h3>
<p>MDBG gives &#8220;shuìfú&#8221; as the Taiwan pronunciation, but I&#8217;ve never heard anyone down here say anything BUT &#8220;shuìfú&#8221; (and my friend Tommy has never heard anything BUT &#8220;shuōfú&#8221;). Also, a student told me the other day that during high school, in preparation for the gāokǎo <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E9%AB%98%E8%80%83">高考</a> (which includes a pinyin section to test students&#8217; Mandarin&#8211;I&#8217;d love to get a hold of some online materials for that by the way if anyone knows of any), they were told to give the correct pinyin for <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%AF%B4%E6%9C%8D">说服</a> and if they put &#8220;shuōfú&#8221; it was marked wrong.</p>
<p>Now, I know that informants are flawed and can be prone to shooting from the hip, selling their own opinions as universal laws, and are always influenced by their own fāngyán <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%96%B9%E8%A8%80">方言</a> (this is Guangzhou, after all). But it&#8217;s not only one person who&#8217;s saying these things.</p>
<p>Also that gaokao story had a sort of ring of truth to it. Why would the character <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%AF%B4">说</a> be included on a test if it was meant to be pronounced the same way it always is (&#8220;shuō&#8221;)? At the same time, none of my dictionaries give &#8220;shuìfú&#8221;. So, what are we to think? Any <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/whats-up-with-persuade.htm#respond">ideas are welcome</a>.</p>
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		<title>Linguistic Complaining</title>
		<link>http://laowaichinese.net/linguistic-complaining.htm</link>
		<comments>http://laowaichinese.net/linguistic-complaining.htm#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jul 2010 06:43:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Albert</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Rants]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laowaichinese.net/?p=1756</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Learning a foreign language can be very rewarding. But it can also be very frustrating. Chinese sometimes seems to be unfairly frustrating in many ways. I&#8217;ve been thinking about outlets for that frustration and I&#8217;ve decided that the one I&#8217;m most prone to is complaining about the Chinese language. I&#8217;ve found the following to be [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Learning a foreign language can be very rewarding. But it can also be very frustrating. Chinese sometimes seems to be unfairly frustrating in many ways.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been thinking about outlets for that frustration and I&#8217;ve decided that the one I&#8217;m most prone to is complaining about the Chinese language. I&#8217;ve found the following to be true about my linguistic complaining:</p>
<ol>
<li>I usually complain to other foreigners (especially those who are also trying to learn Chinese).</li>
<li>I don&#8217;t mind complaining in front of Chinese people.</li>
<li>I almost always complain about unchangeable, ingrained parts of the language (like the fact that there are tones).</li>
<li>I use the word &#8220;they&#8221; when complaining about the language to mean &#8220;Chinese people&#8221; or &#8220;speakers of Chinese.&#8221;</li>
<li>I prepare my complaints ahead of time so that when I meet a sympathetic listener I&#8217;m ready.</li>
<li>It feels good to complain.</li>
</ol>
<p>However, despite the temporary good feelings I may get from venting, I&#8217;ve come to believe that linguistic complaining is overall a very destructive activity. This may come as a surprise since I&#8217;ve occasionally even used this blog for some ranting. Let&#8217;s just say I&#8217;m trying to turn over a new leaf.</p>
<p>But before I explain why I feel I&#8217;ve got a problem and I&#8217;m trying to quit, let me give some examples of the type of complaining I&#8217;m most prone to so it&#8217;ll be easier to imagine my plight.</p>
<h3>Types of Linguistic Complaining</h3>
<p><strong>1. Pronunciation</strong><strong><br />
</strong><strong> </strong></p>
<p>Probably the most common category for me is the tones. I find it unfair that I&#8217;ve got to learn two things for each word (the word itself and the tone with which to say it). I also find it strange that Chinese people can understand the words of songs (which follow the &#8220;tones&#8221; of the melody rather than the tones the dictionary gives for each word) but can&#8217;t understand the words I&#8217;m saying with the wrong tones. I&#8217;ve often felt that a fruit vendor or someone &#8220;misunderstood me on purpose and knew full well what I meant!&#8221;</p>
<p><strong>2. Vocabulary</strong></p>
<p>How do you say something in Chinese? Well there might be a whole lot of words for it and every dictionary you look in might give you a different word. I&#8217;ve often been frustrated that &#8220;They have so many words for the same thing!&#8221; in Chinese. There are also some divergent concepts where Chinese has two or more different words for something we&#8217;ve only got one word for (for example &#8220;thin&#8221; and &#8220;thick&#8221; are different in Chinese depending on the shape of the object).</p>
<p><strong>3. Listening</strong></p>
<p>One of the side effects of only having <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/pinyin-chart.htm">409-ish syllables</a> in Chinese plus the 5 tones is that a whole lot of words sound the same. This makes listening especially difficult. I&#8217;ve found myself getting angry when a student asked me in class (without any context), for example: &#8220;How do you say shíwù in English?&#8221; My brain immediately starts pumping out permutations of all the meanings those syllables could have with those tones (here are <a href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?page=worddict&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqb=shi2wu4" target="_blank">the four in the dictionary</a>) and I have no way of knowing which one the student meant without resorting to hanzi or some sort of clarifying discussion.</p>
<p><strong>4. Lack of Practice Partners </strong></p>
<p>Over my five years in China, it&#8217;s been a real &#8220;feast or famine&#8221; regarding Chinese language practice partners. Fact is: you can&#8217;t learn Chinese (well, most people can&#8217;t) unless there&#8217;s someone who&#8217;s willing to talk to you in Chinese. During times when I&#8217;ve been isolated or unable to find people who don&#8217;t want to talk to me just to improve their English, I&#8217;ve often said to myself, &#8220;They&#8217;re so selfish! I&#8217;m trying to learn THEIR language and no one&#8217;s helping me!&#8221;</p>
<h3>Effects of Complaining</h3>
<p>The above examples are meant to help you identify whether you too are prone to linguistic complaining. If you are, it&#8217;s of course up to you also to decide if you think it&#8217;s a good use of your energy. For me, personally, I&#8217;ve come to the conclusion that no good comes of the type of complaining I&#8217;ve described.</p>
<p><strong>1. It Torpedoes My Motivation</strong></p>
<p>When I complain about these things, all of which are out of my control to change, I find that a feeling of helplessness and hopelessness quickly grows. I start thinking, &#8220;It&#8217;s not getting better, and I&#8217;ve already been trying this long. Maybe I&#8217;ve done about as much as I can with this language.&#8221;</p>
<p><strong>2. It Torpedoes My Relationships with Chinese Friends</strong></p>
<p>Imagine for a moment I have my own children. I don&#8217;t want my neighbor to come over and list all the bad things my kids do. I know my kids aren&#8217;t perfect, but I&#8217;m stuck with them. And there are a lot of good things they do too.</p>
<p>Well, as polite as our Chinese friends may be when listening to rants against their language, they would probably rather talk about something else. It&#8217;s out of their control as much as it is out of mine. But I&#8217;ve actually (shockingly!) found myself blaming individual Chinese friends of mine for &#8220;this language&#8221; and its perceived flaws. It really put a damper on our relationship. I&#8217;ve often wondered if that&#8217;s one contributing factor to those dry spells when I didn&#8217;t have Chinese friends who wanted to speak Chinese with me.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m amazed at how emotional I can get over these issues. Some people get angry about sports teams. I&#8217;ve gotten angry about measure words. No one wants to be around angry people on a prolonged basis.</p>
<p><strong>3. It Makes Me Proud</strong></p>
<p>If I could sum up the problem with linguistic complaining in one sentence it would be:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;When I complain, I feel powerful and it gives me an artificially inflated sense of who I am in this country and the whole universe for that matter.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>When I complain about something as ancient and complex as the Chinese language, I&#8217;m setting myself up as a sort of &#8220;Linguistic God.&#8221; I&#8217;m actually thinking thoughts like, &#8220;If I&#8217;d created the language I would have done things very, VERY differently.&#8221; As if I can even take credit for anything in my own language!</p>
<h3>Zěnme Bàn? <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%80%8E%E4%B9%88%E5%8A%9E">怎么办</a>?</h3>
<p>Now that I&#8217;ve identified the fact that I&#8217;m a linguistic complainer and that it&#8217;s a problem for me, the issue becomes how to avoid slipping back into those tendencies to complain. As with all complaining, the root is actually thinking.</p>
<p>The key, for me, is to still feel free to think honestly about the language and the language-learning process, without being negative. Many of the solutions I&#8217;ve come up with have come about by thinking and speaking honestly about difficulties I&#8217;ve encountered.</p>
<p>But problems arise when I start thinking negatively about things I have no control over (for example the fact that the language has tones at all).</p>
<p>For example, I&#8217;ve found I need to avoid thoughts in the following general categories:</p>
<ul>
<li>&#8220;Chinese is a bad language.&#8221;</li>
<li>&#8220;English (or some other language) is better because of ____.&#8221;</li>
<li>&#8220;If I were trying to learn a different language I wouldn&#8217;t be feeling this way.&#8221;</li>
</ul>
<p>Such thoughts put the blame for how I&#8217;m feeling on the language. In fact, I&#8217;m in charge of my own emotional response to the language and the thoughts I allow myself to entertain. Besides, no one is forcing me to continue attempting to learn the language or even stay in China for that matter.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m now convinced that, regardless of the difficulties inherent in learning Chinese (and there are many), complaining about them is of no benefit to me (or anyone) and only leaves me angry or discouraged. Complaining makes me feeling powerful and it may even be entertaining to listen to. But I&#8217;ve found that the long-term costs outweigh the temporary benefits.</p>
<p>Thus ends the confession of a linguistic complainer.</p>
<em>Similar Posts (computer generated):</em><ul><li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/language-learning-is-messy-iii-learn-what-you-need.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2007 November 5">Language Learning is Messy III: Learn What You Need</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/language-learning-is-messy-ii-talk-a-lot.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2007 September 23">Language Learning is Messy II: Talk a Lot</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/learning-mandarin-in-cantonese-land.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2011 April 6">Learning Mandarin in Cantonese Land</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/language-learning-is-messy-i.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2007 September 17">Language Learning is Messy I</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/master-the-tones.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2006 October 17">Master the Tones</a></li>
</ul><!-- Similar Posts took 6.612 ms -->]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Unlimited Wireless Internet</title>
		<link>http://laowaichinese.net/unlimited-wireless-internet.htm</link>
		<comments>http://laowaichinese.net/unlimited-wireless-internet.htm#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 22:11:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Albert</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Rants]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laowaichinese.net/?p=1440</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I just got back from China Telecom trying to get an ADSL (broadband) internet connection installed. My end goal is to get a wireless router so I can have wireless internet and blog from the balcony as well as my desk. But I didn&#8217;t tell the lady that, which is why I was so surprised [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just got back from China Telecom trying to get an ADSL (broadband) internet connection installed. My end goal is to get a wireless router so I can have wireless internet and blog from the balcony as well as my desk. But I didn&#8217;t tell the lady that, which is why I was so surprised when she said the 130 yuan per month included:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">wúxiàn shí shàngwǎng</p>
<p>She rattled off some more stats and info that was lost on me, but I had to clarify what she&#8217;d just said. I&#8217;d been thinking of wireless routers and I thought maybe they were running some sort of Mid-Autumn special for wireless (wúxiàn <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%97%A0%E7%BA%BF">无线</a>) capability for getting online (shàngwǎng <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%B8%8A%E7%BD%91">上网</a>).</p>
<p>After MANY clarifying questions I found that wúxiàn was really <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%97%A0%E9%99%90">无限</a> not <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%97%A0%E7%BA%BF">无线</a>. She laughed and said:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">mànmàn xué ba <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%85%A2%E6%85%A2%E5%AD%A6%E5%90%A7">慢慢学吧</a> = Learn slowly / Take your time learning</p>
<p>It was hard for me not to feel a little patronized especially when the words I&#8217;d gotten confused sound EXACTLY the same, and they can BOTH apply to getting online.</p>
<p>The one syllable I was supposed to use to help me figure out which wúxiàn she was talking about was:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">wúxiàn <strong>shí </strong>shàngwǎng</p>
<p>That shí turns out to be shíjiān de shí <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%97%B6%E9%97%B4%E7%9A%84%E6%97%B6">时间的时</a>. So that phrase meant &#8220;there is no limit to the amount of time I can spend online&#8221; and NOT &#8220;getting on wireless internet.&#8221;</p>
<p>What a hard language.</p>
<p>PS: On the evening of Mid-Autumn Festival I ran into some of my students. I asked where they were going and one replied with only two syllables: &#8220;xiǎng yuè.&#8221; At first I had no idea what she meant because I&#8217;ve never heard that phrase,  but luckily I had predicted that she would say something about the moon. I ran her two syllables through the database of possible things I would have said, then deleted 2 syllables from my results and compared them to what she said. The result came up with the most likely candidate for what she&#8217;d meant being: <strong>xiǎng</strong>shòu <strong>yuè</strong>liang <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BA%AB%E5%8F%97%E6%9C%88%E4%BA%AE">享受月亮</a>. MATCH FOUND! It was later confirmed by her. I&#8217;ve never heard those two syllables like that before. I consider it a minor miracle that I understood it at all.</p>
<p>What a hard language.</p>
<em>Similar Posts (computer generated):</em><ul><li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/new-internet-slang-geili-%e7%bb%99%e5%8a%9b.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2011 May 29">New Internet Slang: Gěilì 给力</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/learning-mandarin-in-cantonese-land-ii-vowel-shifts.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2011 June 6">Learning Mandarin in Cantonese Land II: Vowel Shifts</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/hey-thats-cheating-ok.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2010 July 6">Hey, That&#8217;s Cheating! OK?</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/stump-the-chinese-kangli-%e4%bc%89%e4%bf%aa.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2010 October 24">Stump the Chinese: Kànglì 伉俪</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/stump-the-laowai-wunai.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2009 October 6">Stump the Laowai: wúnài 无奈</a></li>
</ul><!-- Similar Posts took 8.712 ms -->]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>He/She Mistake in the News</title>
		<link>http://laowaichinese.net/heshe-mistake-in-the-news.htm</link>
		<comments>http://laowaichinese.net/heshe-mistake-in-the-news.htm#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:44:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Albert</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Rants]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laowaichinese.net/?p=1219</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was most intrigued when I saw a snippet of a recent article in the China Daily about the new U.S. ambassador to China: &#8220;The ambassador also introduced her family to the media in fluent mandarin&#8230;&#8221; This surprise me because I thought the new ambassador was Jon Huntsman. Turns out he is, and this is [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was most intrigued when I saw a snippet of a <a href="http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2009-08/22/content_8604451.htm" target="_blank">recent article</a> in the <em>China Daily</em> about the new U.S. ambassador to China:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;The ambassador also introduced <strong>her</strong> family to the media in fluent mandarin&#8230;&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2009-08/22/content_8604451.htm" target="_blank"><img class="alignright" style="border: 0pt none;" title="huntsman family" src="../wp-content/uploads/2009/08/huntsman-family-300x190.jpg" alt="huntsman family" width="300" height="190" /></a>This surprise me because I thought the new ambassador was Jon Huntsman. Turns out he is, and this is just the classic &#8220;he/she/(it)&#8221; mix-up.</p>
<p>It could be an innocent typo (of which I myself make many on this blog!), but more likely the article was either written by a native speaker of Chinese or the article was translated from Chinese (couldn&#8217;t confirm). Here&#8217;s the full quotation:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;The ambassador also introduced <strong>her </strong>family to the media in fluent mandarin and invited reporters to enjoy an episode <strong>his</strong> eldest daughter Mary Anne played on piano in the living room.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>For anyone new to the &#8220;he/she&#8221; fiasco, the defense usually goes like this:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;We Chinese have only one word for &#8216;he/she/it&#8217;: <strong>tā</strong>. So when speaking English we often make mistakes. It&#8217;s a case where a divergent concept in English (like <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/doubt-harder-than-youd-suspect.htm">doubt/suspect</a>, <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/the-curse-of-the-convergent-concepts.htm">borrow/lend</a>) is responsible for this mistake as well as <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/learning-from-others-mistakes.htm">others</a>.</p></blockquote>
<p>The prosecution now says:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;Yes, but when writing Chinese characters you have to chose one of three depending on what you&#8217;re talking about. <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BB%96">他</a>,<a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%A5%B9">她</a>, and <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%AE%83">它</a> are all pronounced <strong>tā</strong>, but mean &#8216;he,&#8217; &#8216;she,&#8217; and &#8216;it,&#8217; respectively. And now here&#8217;s an article in a major Chinese publication that shows the mistake in print, even though there is no divergence between the Chinese and English writing of &#8216;he/she/it.&#8217;&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m not really interested in a &#8220;verdict,&#8221; I just thought it was interesting to see more evidence that the &#8220;he/she&#8221; problem isn&#8217;t just in the realm of speaking (my writing students in China have been known to write &#8220;he/she&#8221; wrong from time to time even when talking about their own family members!).</p>
<p>And now, just to indulge my fantasy of becoming a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forensic_linguistics" target="_blank">forensic linguist</a>, I&#8217;d like to point out that whoever wrote the article was most likely trained in British English because of the <a href="http://www.britishcouncil.org/learnenglish-central-grammar-collective-nouns.htm" target="_blank">collective</a> treatment of &#8220;family&#8221; here:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;Now my family <strong>are</strong> very happy to come here to serve on behalf of the US government.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>I think Mr. Huntsman would have said &#8220;my family <strong>is</strong> very happy,&#8221; hence my theory that this has been translated into English by someone trained in British English.</p>
<p>That was fun.</p>
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<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/learning-mandarin-in-cantonese-land-ii-vowel-shifts.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2011 June 6">Learning Mandarin in Cantonese Land II: Vowel Shifts</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/they-dont-understand-my-chinese-whats-wrong.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2007 March 11">They Don&#8217;t Understand My Chinese, What&#8217;s Wrong?</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/the-informant.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2007 February 3">The Informant</a></li>

<li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/how-hard-is-chinese-to-learn-really.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2006 September 25">How Hard Is Chinese to Learn, Really?</a></li>
</ul><!-- Similar Posts took 6.808 ms -->]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Unnecessary Measure Words</title>
		<link>http://laowaichinese.net/unnecessary-measure-words.htm</link>
		<comments>http://laowaichinese.net/unnecessary-measure-words.htm#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 00:26:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Albert</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Rants]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laowaichinese.net/?p=748</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sticking with the number theme, here&#8217;s a little quiz. Now don&#8217;t be nervous, and don&#8217;t read ahead to the answers (I tired to find an upside-down font for the answers, but you&#8217;ll just have to be on your honor). Anyone who&#8217;s studied Chinese for a few weeks or months should be able to do the [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sticking with the <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/numbers-with-special-meanings.htm">number theme</a>, here&#8217;s a little quiz.  Now don&#8217;t be nervous, and don&#8217;t read ahead to the answers (I tired to find an upside-down font for the answers, but you&#8217;ll just have to be on your honor).</p>
<p>Anyone who&#8217;s studied Chinese for a few weeks or months should be able to do the quiz.  The best time to take this quiz is while you&#8217;re feeling good after hearing a native speaker <a href="http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs/2009/07/schadenfreude-for-zhonglish-speakers/" target="_blank">not know the measure word for computer</a>.</p>
<h3><strong>Questions</strong></h3>
<p><strong>1. How do you say, &#8220;16 people&#8221; in Chinese?</strong></p>
<p><strong>2. How do you say &#8220;24 hours&#8221; in Chinese?</strong></p>
<p>HINT: There is more than one correct answer to each question.</p>
<p>Do you have your answers?  Try not to think about the title of this post when you answer or you&#8217;ll anticipate my <em>coup de grace</em>.</p>
<h3><strong>Answers</strong></h3>
<p>(not bolded to reduce cheating)</p>
<p>1. shíliù gè rén <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%8D%81%E5%85%AD%E4%B8%AA%E4%BA%BA">十六个人</a> &#8211; OR &#8211; shíliù wèi rén <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%8D%81%E5%85%AD%E4%BD%8D%E4%BA%BA">十六位人</a> (polite)*</p>
<p>2. èrshísì gè xiǎoshí <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BA%8C%E5%8D%81%E5%9B%9B%E4%B8%AA%E5%B0%8F%E6%97%B6">二十四个小时</a> &#8211; OR &#8211; èrshísì gè zhōngtóu <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BA%8C%E5%8D%81%E5%9B%9B%E4%B8%AA%E9%92%9F%E5%A4%B4">二十四个钟头</a></p>
<p>*There are even <a href="http://hk.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?page=worddictbasic&amp;wdqb=classifier+people&amp;wdrst=1&amp;wdeac=0" target="_blank">more measure words</a> you can use for people, but those are the main ones in everyday speech.</p>
<p>Now, look at these pictures and see if you can see the difference between your answers and the written Chinese (again, try not to think about the post title):</p>
<div id="attachment_1060" class="wp-caption alignnone" style="width: 310px"><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/16persons.jpg" target="_blank"><img class="size-medium wp-image-1060" style="border: 0pt none;" src="http://laowaichinese.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/16persons-300x225.jpg" alt="16persons" width="300" height="225" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">(elevator max occupancy plate)</p></div>
<div id="attachment_1061" class="wp-caption alignnone" style="width: 235px"><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/24hours.jpg" target="_blank"><img class="size-medium wp-image-1061" style="border: 0pt none;" title="24hours" src="http://laowaichinese.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/24hours-225x300.jpg" alt="24hours" width="225" height="300" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">(TV show &quot;24&quot; Season 7 pirated DVD cover)</p></div>
<p>The hanzi in those two pictures tells us that additional correct answers are:</p>
<p>1. <strong>shíliù rén <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%8D%81%E5%85%AD%E4%BA%BA">十六人</a> </strong>(16<a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BA%BA">人</a> as it appears in the picture)<strong><br />
</strong></p>
<p>2. <strong>èrshísì xiǎoshí <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BA%8C%E5%8D%81%E5%9B%9B%E5%B0%8F%E6%97%B6">二十四小时</a></strong> (24<a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%B0%8F%E6%97%B6">小时</a> as it appears in the picture)</p>
<p>No measure words!</p>
<p>Alright, enough beating around the bush.  I&#8217;m going to just come out and tell you what I&#8217;m getting at:</p>
<p><strong>The Chinese don&#8217;t seem to need measure words within written Chinese. </strong></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it would be acceptable to SAY, when speaking Chinese, either of those no-measure-word utterances that appear in the pictures (at least usually rén <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BA%BA">人</a> and xiǎoshí <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%B0%8F%E6%97%B6">小时</a> need a measure word in front of them).</p>
<p>I count this as an argument supporting <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/why-does-chinese-have-measure-words.htm">theory 3</a>: that measure words came about to help people differentiate all those homonyms when speaking to each other.  When dealing with hanzi only (i.e. reading written Chinese), there are no homonyms. Therefore, you can do without measure words.</p>
<p>I guess that means that the main functions of measure words in spoken Chinese are to indicate:</p>
<p>1. What I just said before this measure word was a number.</p>
<p>2. What I&#8217;m about to say after this measure word is a noun.</p>
<p>With the huge number of homonyms in Chinese, other words can sound like numbers (especially 1 yī, 10 shí, and 4 sì the way it&#8217;s pronounced by many in Southern China as &#8220;shì&#8221;), and the noun itself can <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/i-work-in-a-trash-dump.htm">sound like other nouns</a> with only a single tone difference (and sometimes not even that).  Measure words give valuable auditory clues that help increase the chances (not always to 100%) that what you&#8217;re saying will be understood.</p>
<p>And so, to close on a pedagogical note: when speaking Chinese, the more accurate your measure words are, the more likely it is that you&#8217;ll be understood (there&#8217;s some help with that <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/top-10-measure-words-to-know.htm">here</a> and <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/which-measure-words-do-they-really-use.htm">here</a>).</p>
<p>Anyone else know any examples of a measure word that would usually be there in spoken Chinese that disappears in written Chinese?  <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/unnecessary-measure-words.htm#respond">Do tell</a>.</p>
<em>Similar Posts (computer generated):</em><ul><li><a href="http://laowaichinese.net/top-10-measure-words-to-know.htm" rel="bookmark" title="2006 December 12">Top 10 measure words to know</a></li>

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		<title>Cognate Coincidences</title>
		<link>http://laowaichinese.net/cognate-coincidences.htm</link>
		<comments>http://laowaichinese.net/cognate-coincidences.htm#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 08:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Albert</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Rants]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laowaichinese.net/?p=396</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Chinese has no cognates with English (one of the reasons it&#8217;s difficult to learn). So, when I come across words like these, I know one of the words has been imported from one language to another (yes yes, I know, that means there are some cognates NOW&#8211;but precious few): 1. sofa = shāfā 沙发 (English [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chinese has no cognates with English (one of the reasons it&#8217;s difficult to learn).  So, when I come across words like these, I know one of the words has been imported from one language to another (yes yes, I know, that means there are some cognates NOW&#8211;but precious few):</p>
<p>1. sofa = shāfā <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%B2%99%E5%8F%91">沙发</a> (English -&gt; Chinese)</p>
<p>2. typhoon = táifēng <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%8F%B0%E9%A3%8E">台风</a> (Chinese -&gt; English)</p>
<p>But some things I can&#8217;t explain at all.  Are these just amazing <a href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?page=worddictbasic&amp;wdqb=qiaohe&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wddmtm=1&amp;wdeac=0" target="_blank">qiǎohé</a>-s?  I&#8217;d love to know.</p>
<p><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>Fee = fèi <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%B4%B9">费</a> </strong></span></p>
<p>The English word is from the Middle English and Old French term &#8220;fief&#8221; and the payment fiefs gave to their landlords.  If you tell me it&#8217;s just a one-in-a-million coincidence that the Chinese word sounds so similar, I&#8217;ll accept that&#8230;once.</p>
<p><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>Totem = túténg <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%9B%BE%E8%85%BE">图腾</a></strong></span></p>
<p>The English word comes from a North American Indian language family called Algonquian.  Does that mean that the ancient Chinese people in southern Guangxi who made totems didn&#8217;t have a word for it and waited for the term to get imported across the Pacific?  Or is this just an amazing coincidence again?  I&#8217;d be willing to accept that, but not the next one.</p>
<p><strong>Swallow (bird) = yàn <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E7%87%95">燕</a><br />
</strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>To Swallow = yàn <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%92%BD">咽</a></strong></span></p>
<p>The two English words have different histories.  The word for the bird comes from the Old English &#8220;swealwe&#8221; akin to the German &#8220;schwalbe.&#8221;  The verb comes from the Old Engilsh &#8220;swelgan&#8221; which goes back to the Indo-European base &#8220;swel-&#8221; meaning &#8220;to devour&#8221; (from which we also get the English word &#8220;swill&#8221;).  Ok, that&#8217;s just a coincidence.  If we had &#8220;<a href="http://www.zompist.com/yingzi/yingzi.htm" target="_blank">yingzi</a>&#8221; pictographic characters, the bird and the verb would be two different characters, but the same pronunciation.</p>
<p>But what are the chances that the Chinese name for the bird and the verb are also two different characters but the exact same pronunciation?  The others I MIGHT be willing to accept as coincidences, but not this.  This is too weird.  I&#8217;m loosing sleep over this, people.  Help!  <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/cognate-coincidences.htm#respond">Help</a>!</p>
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		<title>What&#8217;s up with Shower?</title>
		<link>http://laowaichinese.net/whats-up-with-shower.htm</link>
		<comments>http://laowaichinese.net/whats-up-with-shower.htm#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 11:50:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Albert</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Rants]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laowaichinese.net/?p=373</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I always say (and hear) &#8220;xǐzǎo&#8221; 洗澡 for &#8220;to take a shower.&#8221; One time, I wanted to ask at a hotel if the room had a shower. So I asked if they had a &#8220;yùshì&#8221; 浴室. The front desk worker said, &#8220;xǐzǎo ma?&#8221; 洗澡吗. Ok, sure. So, I guess it&#8217;s a noun too? If you&#8217;d [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always say (and hear) &#8220;xǐzǎo&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%B4%97%E6%BE%A1">洗澡</a> for &#8220;to take a shower.&#8221;</p>
<p>One time, I wanted to ask at a hotel if the room had a shower.  So I asked if they had a &#8220;yùshì&#8221; <a href="http://hk.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?page=worddictbasic&amp;wdqb=%E6%B5%B4%E5%AE%A4&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wddmtm=1&amp;wdeac=0" target="_blank">浴室</a>.  The front desk worker said, &#8220;xǐzǎo ma?&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%B4%97%E6%BE%A1%E5%90%97">洗澡吗</a>.  Ok, sure.  So, I guess it&#8217;s a noun too?</p>
<p>If you&#8217;d be so kind as to <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/whats-up-with-shower.htm#respond">leave a comment</a>, I&#8217;d like to do a little poll:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">1. What word(s) do you say for &#8220;a shower&#8221; (n.) and &#8220;to take a shower&#8221; (v.)?</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">2. Does your favorite dictionary have &#8220;xǐzǎo&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%B4%97%E6%BE%A1">洗澡</a> under the English definition for &#8220;shower&#8221;?</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">3. What dictionary was that you just checked?</p>
<p>If I hear back from anyone, the results of this poll will help inform an upcoming article I&#8217;m writing.</p>
<p>Thanking you in advance.</p>
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		<title>Beware of False Friends</title>
		<link>http://laowaichinese.net/beware-of-false-friends.htm</link>
		<comments>http://laowaichinese.net/beware-of-false-friends.htm#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 23:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Albert</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Rants]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laowaichinese.net/?p=128</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I had a guy who came to my first (ever) English corner in China who was obsessed with little idioms and sayings. I called him &#8220;Jingle&#8221; because everything he said sounded like it had come out of a TV commercial. Me: So now let&#8217;s hear from one of the students on that same question: What&#8217;s [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had a guy who came to my first (ever) English corner in China who was obsessed with little idioms and sayings.  I called him &#8220;Jingle&#8221; because everything he said sounded like it had come out of a TV commercial.</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">Me: So now let&#8217;s hear from one of the students on that same question: What&#8217;s your idea of a good friend?</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">Jingle: A friend in need is a friend indeed.</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">Me: Umm&#8230;ok, thanks for that.  Would you care to explain or give an example of what you mean?</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">Jingle: I just mean that two heads are better than one.</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">Me: Well&#8230;umm&#8230;that&#8217;s not exactly&#8230;</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">Someone else: (interrupting) Have you seen <em>Titanic</em>?</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">Jingle: Professionals built the Titanic, but amateurs built the ark.</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">Me: Ok&#8230;well&#8230;sadly, we&#8217;re out of time now.</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">Jingle: Time flies like an arrow.</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">Me: I don&#8217;t know what that means.</p>
<p>I wish I were exaggerating, but I&#8217;m not.  That&#8217;s how it happened.  It wasn&#8217;t exactly what you&#8217;d call a &#8220;conversation.&#8221;</p>
<p>And I&#8217;ve met other Jingles from time to time in my years in China.  What&#8217;s happened is: they&#8217;ve gotten a book of English proverbs and idioms and just slurped them up without any real understanding of the nuances of their meanings or situations in which they&#8217;d be appropriate to use.</p>
<p>Well, we&#8217;ve got to be careful of the same sort of thing.  There are times when we think we know what an idiom means, but the connotations in Chinese are totally different (or different enough) to cause some real problems.  Even if the words translate the same, we may be dealing with a &#8220;false friend.&#8221;</p>
<p><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>Exhibit A: &#8220;Actions Speak Louder than Words&#8221;<br />
</strong></span></p>
<p>My second (ever) week in China, I was invited to a fancy dinner with the other two foreign teachers and the bigwigs of the college.  It was a small gathering of about a dozen, and needless to say, my Chinese was pretty basic at that point.  A few days earlier, I had just learned:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">shuō bùrú zuò <a href="http://hk.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?dss=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%AF%B4%E4%B8%8D%E5%A6%82%E4%BD%9C#" target="_blank">说不如作</a></p>
<p>The literal Chinese translation is &#8220;Speaking is not better than doing.&#8221;  From the context I had learned it in, I was sure it meant &#8220;Actions speak louder than words.&#8221;</p>
<p>To cut a long (and painful) story short, the president of the college asked me something at one point during the dinner and one of the English department leaders translated it into English for me.  I replied with &#8220;shuō bùrú zuò&#8221; to mean that I would prove my loyalty to the school not by what I said but by my actions.  If it had actually meant &#8220;Actions speak louder than words,&#8221; I would have been fine.</p>
<p>In fact, a much better translation of that phrase would be &#8220;Talk is cheap.&#8221;  Because of the context, the president could have taken that as my insulting him.  He could have thought I was saying &#8220;All this talk at a fancy dinner is worthless&#8221; (a lot of talking, an toasting, goes on at those events).</p>
<p>At the time I said it, I got the feeling something was wrong but it was only later that I learned what a  blunder that had been.  It made me want to steer clear of all idioms (overreacting, I know).  Even though I knew what all the words meant, I didn&#8217;t have a good grasp of the connotations.  It turned out to be a false friend.</p>
<p><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>Exhibit B: &#8220;We&#8217;re in the Same Boat&#8221;</strong></span></p>
<p>When the Sìchuān dà dìzhèn <a href="http://hk.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?page=worddictbasic&amp;wdqb=%E5%9B%9B%E5%B7%9D%E5%A4%A7%E5%9C%B0%E9%9C%87&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wddmtm=1&amp;wdeac=0" target="_blank">四川大地震</a> stuck, my classes of English majors wanted to talk about it.  People were talking about the tragedy and all the hardships the people of Sichuan were enduring.  After the earthquake, because of landslides blocking rivers, the threat of flooding was reaching critical.  At one point, when asked for her opinion, a girl simply said, &#8220;I think we&#8217;re all in the same boat, don&#8217;t you think so?&#8221;</p>
<p>I said, &#8220;We&#8217;ll, I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;re exactly in the same boat but we&#8217;re trying to understand them.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, let me tell you, that became a HUGE issue.  I was lucky I found out about it the next week.  The students were furious (and had been talking about it) and said I was &#8220;discriminating&#8221; against Chinese people (whatever that meant!) and couldn&#8217;t believe I&#8217;d said that.  I was shocked that my little comment about figurative boats had caused such an uproar, so I asked a thousand questions and finally figured out the problem.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;ll look at the first two entries <a href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?page=worddictbasic&amp;wdqb=*%E5%90%8C%E8%88%9F*" target="_blank">here</a> (a resource not available to me in class), you&#8217;ll see that &#8220;in the same boat&#8221; in Chinese includes feelings of solidarity and helping each other.</p>
<p>I explained to the class that in English, &#8220;In the same boat&#8221; just means we&#8217;ve found ourselves in the same situation.  But, since our buildings hadn&#8217;t fallen down, our friends and family members hadn&#8217;t been killed, and we are not worried about flooding, I said we aren&#8217;t in the same boat as the Sichuan people.  &#8220;But that doesn&#8217;t mean I don&#8217;t care about them or want to help them.  I myself donated money to the earthquake victims at that little table in front of cafeteria number 1!&#8221; I explained.</p>
<p>That cleared it all up for them and we all breathed a huge sigh of relief.</p>
<p>&#8220;In the same boat&#8221; is a false friend in Chinese because the words are the same, but the meaning isn&#8217;t exactly.  It&#8217;s more about &#8220;hùxiāng bāngzhù&#8221; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BA%92%E7%9B%B8%E5%B8%AE%E5%8A%A9">互相帮助</a> (helping each other) in Chinese, and the English idiom doesn&#8217;t necessarily have that meaning.</p>
<p><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>Oh, and about Traveling&#8230; </strong></span></p>
<p>In class last week, I asked my students why we had to make up our Monday and Tuesday classes on Saturday and Sunday (as we always do for these &#8220;week-long&#8221; holidays).  The answer is: so we can have 7 days off in a row even though there are officially only 3 days of vacation (3 real + 2 made up + 2 next weekend = 7).</p>
<p>I posited that the idea behind 7 days in a row was to allow people to travel farther.  But the class shook their heads.  I was dead wrong.</p>
<p>I said, &#8220;Ok, if it&#8217;s not for traveling, what is the reason?&#8221;</p>
<p>My student answered, &#8220;For example, if a worker has gone out of town to work, and his home is very far away, he can go back home because there are 7 days in a row.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;That&#8217;s what I said!  It&#8217;s so people can travel farther.&#8221;</p>
<p>And then the nickel dropped.</p>
<p>I continued, &#8220;Oh!  When I said &#8216;travel&#8217; you were thinking &#8216;lǚyóu&#8217; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%97%85%E6%B8%B8">旅游</a>, right?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;YES!&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;And lǚyóu is always for fun, right?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;RIGHT!&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;But a worker going home is not lǚyóu-ing, right?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;RIGHT!&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Ok, ok, ok.  In English &#8216;travel&#8217; simply means going from one place to another, which is usually for fun, but a business trip is also traveling, so is going home.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;OH!&#8221;</p>
<p>Not exactly a false-friend idiom.  More like a <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/the-curse-of-the-convergent-concepts.htm">divergent concept</a>, but I still had to throw it in.</p>
<p>Anyone else know any false-friend idioms or divergent concepts like these?  <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/beware-of-false-friends.htm#respond">Do tell</a>.</p>
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		<title>What&#8217;s up with Spoons?</title>
		<link>http://laowaichinese.net/whats-up-with-spoons.htm</link>
		<comments>http://laowaichinese.net/whats-up-with-spoons.htm#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2008 23:47:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Albert</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Rants]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laowaichinese.net/?p=173</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For some reason, one of the most common words ever is a huge communication problem. Spoon (sháozi 勺子). Why? I don&#8217;t know. I can&#8217;t tell you how many times I&#8217;ve asked for a spoon, or another spoon, or a clean spoon in a restaurant, and the fúwùyuán 服务员 didn&#8217;t understand me. I say it slower, [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For some reason, one of the most common words ever is a huge communication problem.</p>
<p><strong>Spoon (sháozi <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%8B%BA%E5%AD%90">勺子</a>).</strong></p>
<p>Why?  I don&#8217;t know.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t tell you how many times I&#8217;ve asked for a spoon, or another spoon, or a clean spoon in a restaurant, and the fúwùyuán <a href="http://hk.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?page=worddictbasic&amp;wdqb=fuwuyuan&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wddmtm=1&amp;wdeac=1" target="_blank">服务员</a> didn&#8217;t understand me.  I say it slower, making sure to get the tone right, add a measure word for clarification (bǎ <a href="http://hk.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?page=worddictbasic&amp;wdqb=cw%3A%E6%8A%8A&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdeac=1" target="_blank">把</a>), but finally have to resort to plain old charades.</p>
<p>I also can&#8217;t tell you how many times a CHINESE PERSON has asked for a spoon, in my presence, and either gotten a blank look or a ladle in return.</p>
<p>Besides the <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/learning-from-others-mistakes.htm" target="_blank">divergent concept</a> issue, what&#8217;s going on with spoons?!  Is that a word that&#8217;s been specially selected for fāngyán <a href="http://hk.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?page=worddictbasic&amp;wdqb=fangyan&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wddmtm=1&amp;wdeac=1" target="_blank">方言</a> diversity?  (&#8220;Ok, now there are lots of words that are bound to sound almost the same from dialect to dialect, but some words need to be unique.  Ok, everyone has to come up with their own word for spoon?  Agreed?  Good.  Dismissed.&#8221;)  Do restaurantes pay a tax for every additional spoon they hand out?  <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/whats-up-with-spoons.htm#respond">Anyone</a>?</p>
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