According to this thread at Sinoglot, it’ll be easier for me to learn Cantonese (if I ever decided to) by comparing it to the Mandarin that I already know than it would be for someone starting from scratch (seems obvious, but it’s complicated, apparently). I won’t be able to ignore the Mandarin I already know so I’ll be comparing no matter what happens.

What I’d really like to find is some materials that outline:

1) The different Romanization systems of Cantonese (and which one I should learn)

2) The tones (including how many there are: a shockingly difficult question for any of these native speakers to answer).

3) The phonemes

4) Anything else that would be helpful in getting the “discount” based on the Mandarin I already know.

I realize the target market for this resource is (can it be true?) even smaller than the target market for my own book, but I was wondering if these things exist anywhere (outside of the comments section of that thread, of course).

Anyone (including you in that thread) have any ideas?

• Tangerine Luck for the Niu Year
• Vote on the Book Title
• Better Mandarin Tones Diagram
• Master the Tones
• They Don’t Understand My Chinese, What’s Wrong?

Hi everyone.
大家好.
da4jia1 hao3.

So I want to highlight the WHOLE DOCUMENT, click a button, and see this:

Hi everyone.
大家好.
dàjiā hǎo.

In other words, it ignores everything without a number, and converts everything with a number to pinyin tones (I know that could convert things I don’t want converted but I’m willing to deal with that).

I’ve already got (as seen in the sidebar under Links > Resources – Pinyin):

• Convert: zhong1wen2 -> zhōngwén – but you’ve got to copy/paste stuff from the document and the worst thing is that you loose all your paragraph returns.
• Type pīnyīn with tone marks – but you’ve got to type in the numbers, it doesn’t convert numbers that are already there (I used this to create the above dàjiā hǎo)
• FireFox Extension: zhong1 -> zhōng converter – I need it everywhere (especially MS Word)

Anyone have any suggestions?

By the way, has anyone done an analysis of the Zhonglish in this clip yet? If so, great! That’ll save me the trouble. If not, please do! I’d rather read it than write it.

• Dots for Tones
• How to type pinyin (pīnyīn) with tone markings
• Pinyin Dictionary for Microsoft Word
• How to Find Chinese Medical Terms
• Pinyin Chart

Here’s the editor’s purpose statement:

Frequently, readers ask us for help when new Chinese phrases or terms pop up in the press or daily conversations. In an attempt to improve the rendering of such terms in English, we have decided to introduce the weekly “Buzzwords” column starting from today (2005-10-07).

This column has three purposes: first, to provide a tentative English translation of new Chinese terms and phrases that have recently appeared in the press as a reference for our readers; second, to tell our readers what are the latest buzzwords in the local press; and third, to invite readers to help us generate better translations.

A lot of the terms seem to be internet and high tech vocabulary.

If you’re interested, they also have information on that same page about contests they hold for the best English translation of these new words.

I’ve added the RSS feed for Buzzword to the iGoogle page (in the middle column). If you’d like it to appear on your Google home page, with all the other (currently 41) feeds to pick and choose from, please get the latest version of the page by clicking this button (it’s free):

Add “Learn Chinese” to iGoogle

• “Learn Chinese” iGoogle Page 2.0
• “Learn Chinese” iGoogle Page Grand Unveiling
• How to Find Chinese Medical Terms
• Chinese Family Tree
• Field Notes

Presenting the Chinese Name Gender Guesser!

It immediately guessed that 张安平 was a boy and 李娟 was a girl. So I gave it (one name at a time) an entire class roster of 20 of my English students here at the college.

Result: 19/20 gender guessed correctly!

To protect the innocent, I’m not going to give you the name of the girl it thought was a boy. But still, I thought that was pretty good.

Just remember that whatever the first character is will be treated as the family name. So if you only know the given name of the person you’re trying to identify, just make up a family name for him/her (like 张).

I just HAD to know how it worked so I emailed Chinese-Tools. They told me it’s based on this database by Wudi.

Here’s an excerpt from the email I got back from Chinese-Tools:

There’s a database with a lot of Chinese characters, and for each of them a gender level indicator. For example 丽 is 100% female, 军 100% male, but some like 丹 can be both, maybe 65% female. Then an average of both characters of the name is calculated.

Very cool. Yet another example of how creative, open-source, free databases are making everyone’s lives better. Thanks Wudi!

• Wanted: Chinese Name Gender Reference
• He/She Mistake in the News
• Addressing strangers
• Mates
• Organize your Vocab: Hanzi Web

If that’s you, there’s a new service that will take you up on that offer: ChineseTeachers.com.

Although this particular site launched for students in April of this year, interactive online language learning/teaching is not a new idea and I’ve long been interested in trying it out. So when I got a personalized email from ChineseTeachers.com inviting me to try out the beta version of the site I was just too flattered to turn it down. (If everyone else got that same email, don’t tell me OK? I want to feel special.)

The Concept

ChineseTeachers.com provides what’s basically a big chat room where everyone except you is a native speaker of Chinese who’s qualified as a Chinese teacher. But you can only chat with one teacher at a time (which is plenty) and you can only voice chat (no typing, which I’ll list later in the cons). So anyone who’s used Skype, GTalk, or QQ to voice chat over the internet should know what to expect as far as technology goes.

You log in, see who’s online, choose a teacher you want to talk to, and then ring ‘em up. As soon as the call connects, the clock starts ticking and you pay for every minute you chat (starting at about $0.20 USD / minute). The first two minutes are always free in case you have some technical difficulties or can’t understand the other teacher. So it’s “Chinese on your terms” like ChinesePod says, but this is interactive instead of just listening.

The Lessons

I tried three different teachers, all female. (I tried to talk to a male teacher but the few that were online were all busy. No, really!)

I deliberately left my profile blank and jumped straight into the lessons just to see how the teachers would handle a new student without any info (such as my Chinese level, goals, etc.). It was surprisingly easy to click a button and immediately start talking to someone with almost no setup whatsoever. The teachers each quickly determined my level and initiated interesting conversations (one of which was about research the teacher had done on pronunciation of certain fāngyán 方言!).

The 1st and 3rd teachers started in English and then asked me to speak a little Chinese. The 2nd teacher started in Chinese and we never used any English. That lead me to believe that the first teacher might have communicated somehow with the 2nd teacher. But then the 3rd teacher didn’t seem to know my level, so I don’t think there’s any interaction between the teachers, even in the form of shared notes about the students.

Now on to my favorite part of the review where I get to mix 1st and 2nd person whenever I feel like it!

Pros

• You direct the learning – You can upload documents or any materials you want help with. If you don’t have any documents (like I didn’t), you can chat about whatever you want and then the teachers will make suggestions and email you study materials for the next class. You also decide how long the lesson/call lasts. All the teachers were very good about sensing that I was drawing the call to a close and didn’t try to keep me on the line any longer than I wanted (even as short as 4 minutes with one teacher).
  
• Flexible schedule – You log on whenever you want and see which teachers are online (and it seems there are always some). I suppose you could find a teacher you really like and ask him/her when a good time to meet again would be.
• Good teachers - I only spoke to three of the 150+ teachers, but they all spoke slowly and clearly and were very patient and willing to repeat things that I didn’t understand. They were all proficient in English and they were all good conversationalists who could keep the ball rolling (I deliberately left some awkward silences to see what they’d do, and they didn’t miss a beat). It’s clear they would all be good informants or “Chat Buddies.”
• Nothing to install – This is huge to me because I HATE installing things on my computer. With this site, you don’t have to install or download any software. You just need the standard Flash Player that anyone who’s watched Youtube (before it was banned!) has.
• Sound quality acceptable – It usually sounds just as good as a normal phone call. I didn’t notice any difference between the quality of these calls and Skype calls. There was a little delay on the 3rd lesson, but that happens sometimes with Skype too.
• Don’t call me, I’ll call you – One of my calls got cut off while we were chatting and I was waiting to see if the teacher would call me back, but she either wouldn’t or couldn’t. Either way it’s good because it keeps the ball in the student’s court.
• Free, immediate tech support – There is at least one staff member in the chat room, whom you can call for free and ask any questions about the site or setup. Even though I’d already done some calls without any need for tech support, I called with one minor question just to see what would happen. The staff member was very helpful (although it was a bit unnerving when she answered with “Hello Albert” but never told me her name – I guess my profile wasn’t completely blank).
• Lots of feedback – After each lesson you evaluate the teacher (out of 5 stars) and the sound quality (out of 5 stars). Then you can write notes to yourself about the teacher and/or the lesson. You can also write a note to the teacher about the lesson. The teacher always seems to write you a little note about the lesson as well.
• Reasonable rates -  $12 USD / hour is very reasonable for a private tutor in the States. According to the comparison table, this site seems to be quite competitive in their pricing.

Cons

NOTE: Some of these are not really problems with ChineseTeachers.com as much as they are with the whole concept of online language tutoring.

• Phone calls are hard in a foreign language – You don’t have any visual clues like body language or facial expressions. Also, regardless of how good the sound quality is, it won’t be as clear as talking face-to-face. Misunderstanding was rare, but ironically I misunderstood the word qīngchu 清楚 at one point because I just couldn’t hear the initial consonants clearly.
• No typing - There were a few times during the lessons when it would have been very helpful if the teacher could have just typed a quick word to me (like qīngchu 清楚) or I could have sent a quick note. There may be some reason why they don’t want the teachers and students to have the ability to communicate outside the headset, but I think it would have been very helpful.
  [Update: I just got an email informing me that the teachers actually can type things to me, but I can't type back to them. I guess none of my teachers thought that was necessary.]
  [Update #2: Now both sides can type chat.]
• It’s Scary to Call a Stranger – If you’re insecure about your Chinese during face-to-face interaction with people that you know, this will be even more difficult. I’m paying them so I assume they want to talk to me, but how do I know?! And how do I know I’ll like talking to them? The initial two minutes of free chat are supposed to give me a bailout if the chemistry isn’t right, but for some reason I wouldn’t feel right just ditching someone. I’m the one who called after all! I suppose I will eventually build up some relationships with my favorite teachers, but I found it a bit awkward at first.
• Time pressure – I couldn’t help looking at that ticking clock thinking, “Am I really getting my money’s worth out of this?” I probably was, but how would I even know? For a paid service there’s no way to escape that feeling, but I was surprised how distracted I was by the clock. On a positive note, I was also surprised how quickly the time passed.

Wish List

• Added! Typing chat built in to the lesson screen (as mentioned above).
• Added! Word list – It would be cool if there were some integration with online dictionaries and/or Skritter so that I or the teacher could add words that came up in the lesson for me to review later. There’s a place on the site for notes, but a personal glossary of my own vocabulary would be useful. It would also be good when I switch teachers so the teacher could see what words I know and might like to review.
• Time remaining countdown – I know I just finished complaining about the time pressure, but I needed to know when I was out of time. When my account started running low, I got a little message that said I would soon be out of money and I should recharge. I panicked and quickly said goodbye to the teacher who was on the line with me. When I hung up I saw I still had several minutes left. A little countdown timer would help so I know when to expect the red light (like a lawyer before the Supreme Court).

If you’re willing to pay but you can’t find a good Chinese tutor in your area, or if you’re tired of the Chewbacca Method, this would be a good site for you. But if you don’t like talking on the phone in a foreign language, or are afraid to talk to strangers, you might want to just look around your neighborhood harder.

I haven’t really examined it closely, but apparently, if you’re a Chinese teacher and you’d like to register to be included in the site, it’s free as long as you pass the selection process. Has anyone done that and would like to tell us about the experience of teaching for an online platform?

Has anyone else tried ChineseTeachers.com or a similar service as a student? What did you think? Do tell.

• Read Chinese (NFLC) – My Review
• Google Translation Bot
• The Quest for “Anyway” II: Success!
• Free Gift from ChineseTeachers.com
• Language Learning is Messy II: Talk a Lot

For those of you early adopters who’ve been with us from the beginning, you’ll have to add it afresh to your iGoogle home page to see the new stuff.

For anyone who doesn’t know what it is, read the detailed press release or just try it out (it’s free after all)!

“Learn Chinese” 2.0 is laid out in three columns the same way the 1.0 page was, but 2.0 has even more feeds.

Current Contents

(click image to enlarge)

*in alphabetical order
**and a dictionary thrown in for good measure

If you know of a resource that should be on the iGoogle page but isn’t, please let me know.

Also, if your feed is a “member” of the page (included in one of those three columns), you might want to consider adding this button to your site:

The “Learn Chinese” 1.0 members that contacted me noticed a huge jump in RSS subscriptions within the first few weeks of the release of the first version of this page and it’s hard to believe that was just a coincidence.  Here’s why it’s a win-win-win, etc. situation:

If your feed is included in the iGoogle page, adding the following code to your website (in WordPress it can just be a “Text” widget) will give each “member” a new subscriber every time someone clicks on the button!

Code:
<a href="http://laowaichinese.net/igoogle" target="_blank"><img src="http://laowaichinese.net/wp-content/uploads/igoogle.gif" border="0" alt="" /> Add "Learn Chinese" to iGoogle</a><br /> <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/learn-chinese-igoogle-page-grand-unveiling.htm" target="_blank"><em>What's this?</em></a>

Looks like this:

Add “Learn Chinese” to iGoogle
What’s this?

I’m still curious to see if we can get “Learn Chinese” to be automatically listed when you add a generic tab to iGoogle.  I think the minimum number of users is 500 so I guess we still don’t have that many yet.  This isn’t really what iGoogle pages were meant to be used for so I really don’t know what the rules are for that.

And by the way, Language Learning and Technology (a journal affiliated with Michigan State University) reviewed the “Learn Chinese” iGoogle page in their June 2009 issue (pdf) under the “Emerging Technology (pdf)” column.  Just thought you should know how famous you are.

• “Learn Chinese” iGoogle Page Grand Unveiling
• ShanghaiDaily’s Buzzword
• Wanted: Chinese-Learning Blog List
• A Facelift for the Blog
• Wanted: Cantonese Materials For Foreigners Who Already Know Mandarin

I have been working with (read: begging) MDBG for the past few weeks to develop and test something that will make self-hosted WordPress bloggers’ lives better.

I’m very proud to announce the arrival of the MDBG wordpress plugin (fanfare please)!

My favorite feature is the automatic linking of all hanzi in posts and comments (!) to the MDBG dictionary.  This is especially useful for my “power pidgin” writing style when I often write a sentence with English and Chinese hùn zài yìqǐ 混在一起 and  I don’t want to have to explain every word.  But it also includes a pinyin tone converter that turns “hun4 zai4 yi4qi3″ into “hùn zài yìqǐ” (with an optional link to pinyin pronunciation files).

That reminds me of a question I’ve been wanting to ask everyone (not just you Joel):

What do you use to make pinyin tones on your computer?

Before this plugin I always used this.

As a final bonus, if you use the plugin on your blog, you get added to a special VIP list at the bottom of the plugin page!

If anyone else is using some sort of auto-linking dictionary plugin, let us know how this one compares.

Can anyone who has a self-hosted WordPress blog think of a reason NOT to use the MDBG plugin at least for automatic linking in comments?

• Colored Tones on MDBG
• Pinyin Dictionary for Microsoft Word
• MDBG Online Dictionary – Tutorial
• Nciku.com – My Review
• Wanted: Chinese-Learning Blog List

(see the Facebook page for more info)

Yes, it’s one more thing to memorize (red = 1st tone, etc.) but I’m hoping the tone-color associations will become automatic after a while.  I expect it’ll be especially useful to help me with my biggest problem: inverting the two syllables of a two-syllable word (like bee and honey).

I’m all for it because it’s just one more “donkey bridge” to help us laowai with Chinese’s biggest challenge.

It’s going to be interesting to see if these tone colors become standardized (i.e. other websites using the same colors for tones). If so, I think there’s potential for a printed dictionary someday with color-coded tones as well.

How cool would it be if this were a common conversation in the future:

A: What are the tones for “teacher” again?  I know that “lao” is third, but I can’t remember what “shi” is.

B: Three one.

A: Are you sure?

B: Yeah I remember because it’s green red, like Christmas.

A: Oh that’s right, and “honest” is green yellow: three two.

Is anyone else using the tone colors at MDBG?

• Better Mandarin Tones Diagram
• Nciku.com – My Review
• Tone Wars
• MDBG Dictionary Plugin for WordPress
• How to type pinyin (pīnyīn) with tone markings

[Update: see also  also "Learn Chinese" 2.0]

(Click here for audio soundtrack for this post)

[See original post to listen to audio]

This is the greatly anticipated (by me) and severely anticlimactic (to you) kāimùshì 开幕式 of my “secret plan” for all those Chinese-learning RSS feeds:

A “Learn Chinese” iGoogle page! (Add the button to your own page)

Current Contents

(click image to enlarge)

*in alphabetical order
**and a dictionary thrown in for good measure

What is it?

For learners of Chinese, this is a way to skim quickly and easily the “headlines” of (currently) 21 a lot of different Chinese-learning blogs and resources all displayed on one page.  You can rearrange, add, and remove content to customize the page for your own Chinese learning.  The idea is that rather than checking each website every day, you can just click over to the iGoogle page, have a look at what’s new or intriguing and then dive into the content that interests you without clicking on thousands of different pages.

For writers of blogs/Chinese resources, this is a way for us to hùxiāng bāngzhù 互相帮助 and boost everyone’s readership (see below in “What’s Next” section).

Everyone wins!

How do I try it?

It’s absolutely FREE (you don’t even need to sign up for a Google/Gmail account, but if you want to save your settings you should at some point).

Just do this:

1. Click here to tell iGoogle you’re thinking about trying the “Learn Chinese” page.

2. On the screen that opens, ignore almost everything while you scroll down and click the button that looks like this:

(I don’t know what that check mark does)

3. Go to www.igoogle.com.

4. You should see a list of headlines arranged in 3 columns.  Here’s a little diagram to show how I organized the stuff (you won’t see these column headings on the page itself):

Blogs*

Daily Words

Lessons**

*in alphabetical order
**and a dictionary thrown in for good measure

5. Here’s how to use the iGoogle page:

What’s Next?

If your website is included in the “Learn Chinese” page, consider adding the following code to your website (in WordPress it can just be a “Text” widget) and we’ll each get a new subscriber every time someone clicks on it!

Code:
<a href="http://laowaichinese.net/igoogle" target="_blank"><img src="http://laowaichinese.net/wp-content/uploads/igoogle.gif" border="0" alt="" /> Add "Learn Chinese" to iGoogle</a><br /> <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/learn-chinese-igoogle-page-grand-unveiling.htm" target="_blank"><em>What's this?</em></a>

Looks like this:

Add “Learn Chinese” to iGoogle
What’s this?

If we get 500 users of the “Learn Chinese” iGoogle tab,  it should appear in the auto-complete suggestions for iGoogle adding tabs (whatever that means. If you’d like to know more about that, let me know.)

I don’t currently know of any way to track how many users there are of this iGoogle page.  That’s one of the things that makes this grand experiment so fun.

I see RSS feeds as a largely untapped potential for language learning (and in general).  I would love to know how to post “a package” or list of raw RSS feeds like this some way other than an iGoogle page created from a dummy email address.  But this is the best I could come up with for now.  If anyone else has a better way to do this, please do tell.

Something missing from the “Learn Chinese” iGoogle page?

Let us know and I’ll add it if it’s appropriate.

Disclaimer: Laowai Chinese does not take responsibility for any of the content displayed on iGoogle.  The “Learn Chinese” page is just an attempt to aggregate all current, quality RSS content that is related to learning Chinese without making any statement or claim about the value of each resource.  Any dispute about whether a resource should be added to “Learn Chinese” will be settled via peer pressure in the form of comments on this post.

[Update: Language Learning and Technology (a journal affiliated with Michigan State University) reviewed the "Learn Chinese" iGoogle page in their June 2009 issue (pdf) under the "Emerging Technology (pdf)" column.]

• “Learn Chinese” iGoogle Page 2.0
• Wanted: Chinese-Learning Blog List
• ShanghaiDaily’s Buzzword
• MDBG Online Dictionary – Tutorial
• Language Learning is Messy III: Learn What You Need

I don’t think there are very many blogs about learning Chinese.

Now wait a minute!  Before you start throwing your shoes at me, I mean blogs that are EXCLUSIVELY (or at least MOSTLY) about learning the language of the Middle Kingdom.  There are a lot of great blogs about living in China that include dealings with the language.  But those are not what I’m interested in at the moment.

According to this list by Lexiophiles, LaowaiChinese.net ranks 135 out of 250 in language blogs (I guess the lower 50% post even less often than once every two months).  But that list includes ALL languages (with no capability to sort or filter).  I contacted Lexiophiles and asked them if there is a way to display only Chinese-language-related blogs and they said no, but there are only four others anyway (only two of which currently count: Hanzi Smatter (#46) and Chinese Quest (#226) for the record).

I was a little surprised to see so few (I must confess, I didn’t read the whole list of 250 so there may be more).

What I want is an exhausting exhaustive list of the blogs that we learners of Chinese should be following, blogs that deal with the nuts and bolts of learning Mandarin.  I’m loosely defining “blog” here to mean a website that has frequent updates.  So daily/weekly lessons are ok.  Even “word of the day” sites qualify.  Static resources (like a dictionary or hanzi/pinyin converter) are being filed separately under “Helpful Resources.”

Does anyone know where such a list exists?  If not, here’s how we shall make it:

If you know of a blog about learning Chinese

• Please slap the URL into a comment to be added to the “Learn Chinese” blogroll.

If you’re the owner of a blog about learning Chinese

• Please check the Learn Chinese blogroll (see sidebar to the right) to see if your blog is already there and to make sure I’ve got the name and link correct.
• If I don’t have your blog listed (sorry about that), please put the URL and prefered RSS feed into a comment so I can mǎshàng add it to the blogroll.
• HOT TIP: If you’ve got a blog and you don’t have a way of seeing stats about your RSS subscribers, I suggest you figure out how to do that (I use Feedburner).

I have a “secret plan” for all those RSS feeds once I’ve got them, bwah ha ha! (Don’t worry, it’s good.)

Blogroll (as of this post):

1. Beijing Sounds 北京的声儿
2. Chinese Hour
3. Chinese Pod – Latest Lessons [update: only Newbie level podcasts available without an account]
   
4. Chinese Study Book Reviews [update: appears he isn't updating this]
   
5. ChineseQuest
6. Hanzi Smatter 一知半解
7. Howma [update: appears he isn't updating this either]
   
8. Learning Chinese Blog
9. Pinyin News

• “Learn Chinese” iGoogle Page Grand Unveiling
• Beijing Sounds – My Review
• A Facelift for the Blog
• The Great China Quest
• MDBG Dictionary Plugin for WordPress