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	<title>Comments on: Hanzification of Olympic Names</title>
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	<link>http://laowaichinese.net/hanzification-of-olympic-names.htm</link>
	<description>Tips and Strategies for Learning to Speak Mandarin Chinese</description>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Edge</title>
		<link>http://laowaichinese.net/hanzification-of-olympic-names.htm/comment-page-1#comment-9238</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Edge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 02:05:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laowaichinese.net/?p=256#comment-9238</guid>
		<description>Wouldn&#039;t my name, Benjamin, be Hanzi-fied as &quot;Bianjiamin&quot; (I am not familiar with tone numbers/marks, yet; the &quot;a&quot; in &quot;Bian&quot; is pronounced like the English short &quot;e&quot; sound corresponding to the first syllable of my name; in most cases the Pinyin &quot;e&quot; is actually pronounced like the schwa sound, &quot;uh&quot;)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wouldn&#8217;t my name, Benjamin, be Hanzi-fied as &#8220;Bianjiamin&#8221; (I am not familiar with tone numbers/marks, yet; the &#8220;a&#8221; in &#8220;Bian&#8221; is pronounced like the English short &#8220;e&#8221; sound corresponding to the first syllable of my name; in most cases the Pinyin &#8220;e&#8221; is actually pronounced like the schwa sound, &#8220;uh&#8221;)?</p>
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		<title>By: Albert</title>
		<link>http://laowaichinese.net/hanzification-of-olympic-names.htm/comment-page-1#comment-6437</link>
		<dc:creator>Albert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 22:12:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laowaichinese.net/?p=256#comment-6437</guid>
		<description>Check out Jens&#039;s insight into the Cantonese history of some hanzified Western names:

http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs/2008/08/a-structured-approach-to-chinglish-pronunciation-2-of-2/#comment-3137</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check out Jens&#8217;s insight into the Cantonese history of some hanzified Western names:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs/2008/08/a-structured-approach-to-chinglish-pronunciation-2-of-2/#comment-3137" rel="nofollow">http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs/2008/08/a-structured-approach-to-chinglish-pronunciation-2-of-2/#comment-3137</a></p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://laowaichinese.net/hanzification-of-olympic-names.htm/comment-page-1#comment-6379</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 05:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laowaichinese.net/?p=256#comment-6379</guid>
		<description>Albert says that Chinese is the only language refuses to use Alphabets.

First, it is not the case of only. There is a language in 丽江、云南 called Dongba language which uses a more pictographic character system.
Second, the Chinese language does refuse to use an alphabetal system completely. Instead, it employs them as an affiliation to its own system, which is known as Pinyin, thanks to which we Chinese today can not only keep pace with the modern world but remain closely connected to our ancestors. I have been reading a book named 山海经 directly, which was written at least 3000 thousand years ago by our ancestors.
Generally speaking, Chiness characters and Dongba characters don’t refuse to use alphabets for the sake of refusal but because they feel and have proved it UNNECESSARY TO DO SO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Albert says that Chinese is the only language refuses to use Alphabets.</p>
<p>First, it is not the case of only. There is a language in <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%B8%BD%E6%B1%9F%E3%80%81%E4%BA%91%E5%8D%97">丽江、云南</a> called Dongba language which uses a more pictographic character system.<br />
Second, the Chinese language does refuse to use an alphabetal system completely. Instead, it employs them as an affiliation to its own system, which is known as Pinyin, thanks to which we Chinese today can not only keep pace with the modern world but remain closely connected to our ancestors. I have been reading a book named <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%B1%B1%E6%B5%B7%E7%BB%8F">山海经</a> directly, which was written at least 3000 thousand years ago by our ancestors.<br />
Generally speaking, Chiness characters and Dongba characters don’t refuse to use alphabets for the sake of refusal but because they feel and have proved it UNNECESSARY TO DO SO.</p>
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		<title>By: Randy Alexander</title>
		<link>http://laowaichinese.net/hanzification-of-olympic-names.htm/comment-page-1#comment-5996</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy Alexander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 08:34:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laowaichinese.net/?p=256#comment-5996</guid>
		<description>I just posted an article on Chinglish, and in the article I reveal something interesting I found that answer&#039;s Albert&#039;s question #1 (how Chinese transliterate foreign names).  The item in question is in the second part of the article, but I&#039;m sure you&#039;ll all like to read the whole article.  I posted it on &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Beijing Sounds&lt;/a&gt;.

Permalinks:
http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs/2008/08/a-structured-approach-to-chinglish-pronunciation-1-of-2/
http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs/2008/08/a-structured-approach-to-chinglish-pronunciation-2-of-2/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just posted an article on Chinglish, and in the article I reveal something interesting I found that answer&#8217;s Albert&#8217;s question #1 (how Chinese transliterate foreign names).  The item in question is in the second part of the article, but I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ll all like to read the whole article.  I posted it on <a href="http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs" rel="nofollow">Beijing Sounds</a>.</p>
<p>Permalinks:<br />
<a href="http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs/2008/08/a-structured-approach-to-chinglish-pronunciation-1-of-2/" rel="nofollow">http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs/2008/08/a-structured-approach-to-chinglish-pronunciation-1-of-2/</a><br />
<a href="http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs/2008/08/a-structured-approach-to-chinglish-pronunciation-2-of-2/" rel="nofollow">http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs/2008/08/a-structured-approach-to-chinglish-pronunciation-2-of-2/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Albert</title>
		<link>http://laowaichinese.net/hanzification-of-olympic-names.htm/comment-page-1#comment-5794</link>
		<dc:creator>Albert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 05:41:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laowaichinese.net/?p=256#comment-5794</guid>
		<description>Anon,

Thanks for the little list of hanzified English syllables.  That&#039;s EXACTLY what I&#039;m talking about in Question 1.  That&#039;s got to be written down somewhere because it seems to be consistently used.  Why should we go to all the trouble when it&#039;s already been done?  Now...if we only knew how to find it.

Randy,

Great off-the-cuff rendering of the English alphabet in pinyin.  That&#039;s EXACTLY what I&#039;m talking about in Question 2.  But, again, that&#039;s got to be written down somewhere too, right?  How do we get our hands on these things?

Jim,

All I mean is: as long as we&#039;re saying &quot;China&quot; (and not &quot;Zhongguo&quot;) when we speak English, then don&#039;t they get to say &quot;Niuyue&quot; instead of &quot;New York&quot; when they&#039;re speaking Chinese?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anon,</p>
<p>Thanks for the little list of hanzified English syllables.  That&#8217;s EXACTLY what I&#8217;m talking about in Question 1.  That&#8217;s got to be written down somewhere because it seems to be consistently used.  Why should we go to all the trouble when it&#8217;s already been done?  Now&#8230;if we only knew how to find it.</p>
<p>Randy,</p>
<p>Great off-the-cuff rendering of the English alphabet in pinyin.  That&#8217;s EXACTLY what I&#8217;m talking about in Question 2.  But, again, that&#8217;s got to be written down somewhere too, right?  How do we get our hands on these things?</p>
<p>Jim,</p>
<p>All I mean is: as long as we&#8217;re saying &#8220;China&#8221; (and not &#8220;Zhongguo&#8221;) when we speak English, then don&#8217;t they get to say &#8220;Niuyue&#8221; instead of &#8220;New York&#8221; when they&#8217;re speaking Chinese?</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Mahler</title>
		<link>http://laowaichinese.net/hanzification-of-olympic-names.htm/comment-page-1#comment-5792</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Mahler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 04:31:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laowaichinese.net/?p=256#comment-5792</guid>
		<description>I think the word &quot;China&quot; comes from the State of Qin (秦, pronounced &#039;chin&#039;) which conquered the other Warring States to form a unified Chinese empire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the word &#8220;China&#8221; comes from the State of Qin (<a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E7%A7%A6">秦</a>, pronounced &#8216;chin&#8217;) which conquered the other Warring States to form a unified Chinese empire.</p>
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		<title>By: Anon</title>
		<link>http://laowaichinese.net/hanzification-of-olympic-names.htm/comment-page-1#comment-5787</link>
		<dc:creator>Anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 02:40:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laowaichinese.net/?p=256#comment-5787</guid>
		<description>Also you can use translation software to transliterate (like Google translate) with pretty impressive results.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also you can use translation software to transliterate (like Google translate) with pretty impressive results.</p>
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		<title>By: Anon</title>
		<link>http://laowaichinese.net/hanzification-of-olympic-names.htm/comment-page-1#comment-5786</link>
		<dc:creator>Anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 02:25:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laowaichinese.net/?p=256#comment-5786</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been wondering about this myself. If I read someone like 菲尔普斯 in Chinese I can tell from the context who they are talking about. However if I wanted to translate a name like Phelps into Chinese for the first time, how do I know which Chinese characters to use?!

When used to form bullet point lists like the English:
(a)
(b)
(c)
...

I&#039;ve seen the Chinese use:
(啊)
(啵)
(次)
(的)
(饿)
(佛)
(哥)
(喝)
(一)
...

However this isn&#039;t very useful for transliteration of names.

Translated names often have the same characters so there must be some standard for transliterating. Maybe we can decipher it from examples. It&#039;s not going to depend on single letters tho, like a character for the alphabet letter &#039;l&#039; etc. It&#039;s a combination of English letters that relate to a Chinese character. For example if the English name contains the letter span &#039;lan&#039; then the Chinese is 兰.
Examples:

lan/land -&gt; 兰
b -&gt; 布 (blair:布莱尔，bush=布什,brad=布拉德—)
s -&gt; 斯
r/er/el/le -&gt; 尔
t -&gt; 特
ma -&gt; 吗
k -&gt; 克
a -&gt; 亚
an -&gt; 安
na -&gt; 那
ph -&gt; 菲
he -&gt; 荷
gl -&gt; 格
la -&gt; 拉
d -&gt; 德
etc...

Just have to make a list like this for every possible syllable in the English language! (every combination of 1-3 English letters)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been wondering about this myself. If I read someone like <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%8F%B2%E5%B0%94%E6%99%AE%E6%96%AF">菲尔普斯</a> in Chinese I can tell from the context who they are talking about. However if I wanted to translate a name like Phelps into Chinese for the first time, how do I know which Chinese characters to use?!</p>
<p>When used to form bullet point lists like the English:<br />
(a)<br />
(b)<br />
(c)<br />
&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen the Chinese use:<br />
(<a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%95%8A">啊</a>)<br />
(<a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%95%B5">啵</a>)<br />
(<a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%AC%A1">次</a>)<br />
(<a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E7%9A%84">的</a>)<br />
(<a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E9%A5%BF">饿</a>)<br />
(<a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BD%9B">佛</a>)<br />
(<a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%93%A5">哥</a>)<br />
(<a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%96%9D">喝</a>)<br />
(<a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%B8%80">一</a>)<br />
&#8230;</p>
<p>However this isn&#8217;t very useful for transliteration of names.</p>
<p>Translated names often have the same characters so there must be some standard for transliterating. Maybe we can decipher it from examples. It&#8217;s not going to depend on single letters tho, like a character for the alphabet letter &#8216;l&#8217; etc. It&#8217;s a combination of English letters that relate to a Chinese character. For example if the English name contains the letter span &#8216;lan&#8217; then the Chinese is <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%85%B0">兰</a>.<br />
Examples:</p>
<p>lan/land -&gt; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%85%B0">兰</a><br />
b -&gt; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%B8%83">布</a> (blair:<a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%B8%83%E8%8E%B1%E5%B0%94%EF%BC%8C">布莱尔，</a>bush=<a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%B8%83%E4%BB%80">布什</a>,brad=<a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%B8%83%E6%8B%89%E5%BE%B7">布拉德</a>—)<br />
s -&gt; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%96%AF">斯</a><br />
r/er/el/le -&gt; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%B0%94">尔</a><br />
t -&gt; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E7%89%B9">特</a><br />
ma -&gt; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%90%97">吗</a><br />
k -&gt; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%85%8B">克</a><br />
a -&gt; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E4%BA%9A">亚</a><br />
an -&gt; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%AE%89">安</a><br />
na -&gt; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E9%82%A3">那</a><br />
ph -&gt; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%8F%B2">菲</a><br />
he -&gt; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E8%8D%B7">荷</a><br />
gl -&gt; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%A0%BC">格</a><br />
la -&gt; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E6%8B%89">拉</a><br />
d -&gt; <a title="Look up in MDBG Chinese-English dictionary" target="_blank" href="http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqcham=1&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqchs=%E5%BE%B7">德</a><br />
etc&#8230;</p>
<p>Just have to make a list like this for every possible syllable in the English language! (every combination of 1-3 English letters)</p>
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		<title>By: Ingo</title>
		<link>http://laowaichinese.net/hanzification-of-olympic-names.htm/comment-page-1#comment-5769</link>
		<dc:creator>Ingo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 16:50:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laowaichinese.net/?p=256#comment-5769</guid>
		<description>Go to a place where they do those name seals for tourists. They should have a book for transliteration of names etc, at least the japanese used to have one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Go to a place where they do those name seals for tourists. They should have a book for transliteration of names etc, at least the japanese used to have one.</p>
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		<title>By: Randy Alexander</title>
		<link>http://laowaichinese.net/hanzification-of-olympic-names.htm/comment-page-1#comment-5765</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy Alexander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 14:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laowaichinese.net/?p=256#comment-5765</guid>
		<description>I looked all over my house and couldn&#039;t find it.  I swear I saw it in my son&#039;s 1st grade textbook (he goes to a public primary school).  I&#039;ll try calling his teacher tomorrow.  I asked some kids in my class today (I run an English school) and *one* of them said they had heard of what I was talking about and learned about it in their Chinese composition class.

There are actually two things.  One is something you can find in the back of any Chinese dictionary, but it&#039;s pre-pinyin (and therefore not really expressible in pinyin).  The roman letters are given &quot;names&quot; in zhuyin fuhao (the Taiwanese bopomofo system [well, Taiwanese because they still use it]).  The thing I&#039;m sure I saw in a textbook was a pinyinized approximation of this.

But that&#039;s not what newscasters are using when they pronounce English (etc) initials.

The reporters use a pinyinized system which I&#039;ve never seen written down, but I&#039;ll try to give you here from memory based on what I hear over the radio and from people spelling things to each other.  Bear in mind that there is some variation in what people say.

ei, bi, xi, di, yi, aifu, ji, eiqu, ai, zhei, kei, ailu, aimu, en, ou, pi, qiu, a, aisi, ti, you, wei, dabuliu, aikesi, wai, zei

I also hear people say kiu (or kiur) for q, but that&#039;s not standard pinyin.  Also aichi for h.

Hope that helps a bit.  : )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I looked all over my house and couldn&#8217;t find it.  I swear I saw it in my son&#8217;s 1st grade textbook (he goes to a public primary school).  I&#8217;ll try calling his teacher tomorrow.  I asked some kids in my class today (I run an English school) and *one* of them said they had heard of what I was talking about and learned about it in their Chinese composition class.</p>
<p>There are actually two things.  One is something you can find in the back of any Chinese dictionary, but it&#8217;s pre-pinyin (and therefore not really expressible in pinyin).  The roman letters are given &#8220;names&#8221; in zhuyin fuhao (the Taiwanese bopomofo system [well, Taiwanese because they still use it]).  The thing I&#8217;m sure I saw in a textbook was a pinyinized approximation of this.</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s not what newscasters are using when they pronounce English (etc) initials.</p>
<p>The reporters use a pinyinized system which I&#8217;ve never seen written down, but I&#8217;ll try to give you here from memory based on what I hear over the radio and from people spelling things to each other.  Bear in mind that there is some variation in what people say.</p>
<p>ei, bi, xi, di, yi, aifu, ji, eiqu, ai, zhei, kei, ailu, aimu, en, ou, pi, qiu, a, aisi, ti, you, wei, dabuliu, aikesi, wai, zei</p>
<p>I also hear people say kiu (or kiur) for q, but that&#8217;s not standard pinyin.  Also aichi for h.</p>
<p>Hope that helps a bit.  : )</p>
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