Is China a good place to learn Chinese?
The short answer: it’s not great, but it’s better than a lot of other places.
Problems with learning Chinese in China
- A lot of people speak English. I teach English for the English department. They all speak English. My students speak English. Most of my life is in English. This also means the urgency for learning Chinese is reduced because you can usually find English-speaking people who will help you accomplish whatever it is you need to do.
- People want to practice their English at you. Teddi and I started calling them “yingwen bandits” because strangers would ambush us and bludgeon us in the ears with a loud “Where are you come from!?” On the other hand, a lot of times, if I know the person speaks English, I’ll feel a little guilty speaking Chinese because I know one of the main reasons they’re hanging out with me is probably to practice English.
- There aren’t very many resources in the common bookstores for foreigners learning Chinese. Just count how many dictionaries have pinyin in them. Almost all the text books want to teach foreigners how to write hanzi and that, in my opinion, is a good project to start after one is fluent with speaking and listening. So, unless you brought your own stuff, you’re stuck with children’s pinyin books (without English translations) and Chubby.
- It is also worth noting that many expats find it difficult to make Chinese friends. I haven’t found that to be the case. But then again, I live on campus at a university teeming with colleagues (there is a good side to #1). I also have some hobbies (ping pong) that give me opportunities to meet people outside the work environment.
So, you really don’t need to speak Chinese in China. I’ve met people who have traveled all over the country, lived here for years and years, even had a Chinese house-mate, and still couldn’t tell the time in Chinese. If you need something done, there is probably someone with good enough English and an eagerness to practice it that will be willing to help you do it.
The good thing about learning Chinese in China
- The second language (L2) environment
The L2 environment does help with motivation (e.g. “I really want to learn Chinese so I can talk to that guy right there”). But as for the “Oh I’ll just pick it up” theory: rubbish. Not with Chinese at least. I’ve known of very few adults who did that with Chinese. But it is better to learn Chinese in China than in a classroom in America because the probability that you’ll be able to apply what you’ve learned is higher (though not guaranteed).
How to stack the deck in favor of your learning Chinese in China
I always seem to have the same conversation with my English students. It goes something like this:
S: Teacher, how can I improve my spoken English?
A: Get a foreign boyfriend.
S: Hahaha. No really.
A: No really.
As cliché as it sounds, the two ways people usually learn Chinese the fastest are:
- Get a Chinese boyfriend/girlfriend
- Go to bars a lot
And even then, there’s no guarantee. One of the best alternatives/supplements to those two strategies is to find an informant.
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17 Responses to “Is China a good place to learn Chinese?”
Holly
said:
You’ve summed up the experience we have here in Taiwan as well, at least in Taipei. My Taiwanese friends frequently question me on this, arguing that I’m in a living classroom, but in fact I can go through most days without using any Chinese at all. Come to think of it, it’s now 6 p.m. and I haven’t spoken a word of Chinese all day! Most of the time, I lament the overuse of English here, however there are times when I’m grateful for it, such as trips to the dentist!
You’re right, though - it’s much better than trying to learn back in the US. Just hearing the sounds on a regular basis makes it easier to learn pronunciation, and I will say I have managed to pick up phrases here and there just by hearing them so frequently and then putting in the legwork to investigate their meanings.
Comment date: Jan 28, 2007
b. cheng
said:
I just don’t get it…Perhaps its an unwillingness to experience the “living classroom.” Too much of the time, I see my friends and other foreigners who are trying to learn Chinese constantly practicing with each other instead of going out and speaking with Chinese people. I guess this is assuming at least a year or so of college level Chinese in their home country, but with that and Chinese classes in China, all it takes is to go places. Instead of eating at McDonalds, go to a small local restaurant and chat with the people there (granted, this requires lowering expectations as to the cleanliness of a dining establisment as well as a bit of courage to talk with strangers). Going to a bar won’t help, because thats a place where people will be speaking English and with music too loud to hold a conversation. The friends that I see “trying” (which includes resisting the urge to speak English) improve more in a 3 month summer program in China than they do in yearlong programs in US universities.
Comment date: Jan 31, 2007
samahuhu
said:
I wholeheartedly agree with b.cheng: you have to leave the comfort zone to make the most of “the living classroom.” So many foreigners are happy to study Chinese yet so few are willing to communicate with Chinese people. The security blanket of a badly pronounced 我听不懂 and a superiority complex still goes a long way in China.
Yet, there is a huge difference between living in China and being wrapped in this security blanket and living in China and speaking Chinese. You may not always make great friends but you can have great experiences far beyond anywhere English can take you China. If you really try to engage with Chinese people in their language you can make great strides.
I also study Chinese independently and have found eating in small local restaurants, talking with taxi drivers, sitting squashed between the chickens and the 哥们儿 on train journeys that average Chinese people are unfailingly helpful to those making the effort to speak Chinese (though not always University students, who often have this deeply sinister ability to draw English from your veins). Tap into Chinese curiosity toward westerners and western culture and the opportunities for conversations are endless. I don’t promise, however, that every conversation is enlightening, but you learn to take the good with the bad.
There are a lot of people in China who speak English, but then there a lot of people in China. Step onto a train in China or walk into any family-run restaurant and out of 100 people perhaps two or three will speak English good enough to hold a conversation, mundane though it may be. Yes, people want to speak with you to practice their English, but you soon develop a sense about those who genuinely want to speak to you and those who want to take advantage of you to improve their “just so-so” English. Either become a little defensive toward strangers approaching you English or erase all memory of the film Titanic, Celine Dion or any other embarrassing cultural artifacts from the west and most conversations will fall flat anyway. I just wish as many 老外 made similar efforts to learn Chinese.
For those who haven’t visited China yet, you’d be amazed at how many foreigners have lived here for years yet still fumble over asking “how much is it?” Just as wealthy Chinese parents are sending their children to England or Australia to improve their English, only for them to return just as mute as when they left; so too do ex-pats in China repeat their mistake by insulating themselves from Chinese society.
The idea that China is even being evaluated as a place to learn Chinese is warped: is there any other place but China where you can study Chinese? Taiwan, of course is a decent option but it’s a bit like studying English in Canada. You can make good progress, but what you gain in cleanliness and life quality you lose in experience. Besides, wherever China goes, the Chinese language will follow. Even in Beijing English isn’t as widespread as you’d expect. Opportunities to speak Chinese are greater than anywhere else on the planet you just need to get out there.
Comment date: Jan 31, 2007
Max
said:
Samahuhu
Agreed with everything you said until I got to the last paragraph. Taiwan is not some antiseptic environment - it is a great place to live and to learn Chinese, and like anywhere else, if you approach it with the right attitude, it’s a fascinating place to live.
Comment date: Feb 1, 2007
Mark
said:
As someone who’s spent a good deal of time living in Taiwan, and been to the mainland, too, I’d say that Taiwan is not the place to learn Chinese.
Every week, some Taiwanese bozo insists on answering my Chinese in English. Yes, I can steer the conversation back to Chinese, and I use Chinese all the time here, but I’m already pretty fluent. Last time I was in Shanghai, the Chinese learning environment was better than I imagined possible. Despite my strong Taiwanese accent, barely anybody at all tried to use English with me, except on Nanjing dong lu. Beijing was even better.
Comment date: Apr 1, 2007
yang bb.
said:
the best way is talking to the some chinese oversea students who are studying in othercountries such as your countries, people can speak chinese on MSN if you get, hotmail or other languages tools, would let you guys get chance, make friend as well, beacuse, it has always been the same way which is hard to find out friends in new countries.
Comment date: May 3, 2007
yangbb
said:
I speak perfect Mandarin,(no accent) because, my hometown is Tian Jin, where is not far from BeiJing, I am over 20, orginal chinese guy; and currently studying a college in North America.
gee……hate to say which country.
if you guys really love to learn chinese, like chinese culture,and also are studying in China, perheps, i can help little bit, you are welcomed to share your ideas, issues and interests from cultural difference. my email is –Ytong1@students.niagaracollege.ca— lol…. don’t be mean to me… …
Comment date: May 3, 2007
Will
said:
Same here where chinese overseas student’s are in western country. I know some people here who have lived in here for 5 or 6 years and still don’t speak English well. However, comparing to me, I think you are lucky in China. Because as you know loads of chinese people are crazy about learning english and not many people here want to learn chinese mandarin!
Comment date: May 3, 2007
Hsu
said:
In china doesn’t mean you have the enough oppertunity to use chinese. So if you want to learn Chinese well ,you’d
better to use Chinese as frequently as possible the same as we learn English.
Comment date: May 28, 2007
lawrence john
said:
i think that filipino are more proficient in english………than other asian countrries
Comment date: Jun 22, 2007
lawrence john
said:
mabuhay
Comment date: Jun 22, 2007
Ben
said:
I would amend your statement that “it’s difficult to make Chinese friends” into “it’s difficult to make CLOSE Chinese friends.” For most foreigners in China it is not difficult to rack up an entourage of Chinese acquaintances who want everything from English practice to the simple knowledge that of them being seen with a foreigner. What is difficult is making real friends who are interested in you as a person not as a laowai. This is not to say anything against Chinese people. Afterall, most of them are just being opportunistic. As you mention, if they want to improve their English, there is no better way than making friends who speak English.
Comment date: Aug 15, 2007
Todd
said:
I’m learning Mandarin right now myself. I live in America but my wife and I went to Taiwan and China in May. I enjoyed visiting the two countries and that’s what sparked my interest in learning Mandarin. My wife is from Guangzhou, China. I feel that learning Mandarin isn’t very hard. It’s a lot of work just like learning any other language but I don’t feel like it’s very hard though. People make it harder than it really is. If you want to talk, my email is: marquette26@yahoo.com.
Comment date: Sep 4, 2007
naturegirl
said:
I agree that it is difficult for foreigners to make close chinese friends in china.
And another thing to consider is the city you live in in China. Beijing is probably the best option because people there don’t have a strong dialect. However when you are in Shanghaior Guangzhou it is probably hard to communicate with some chinese, since they speak with a strong dialect.
Comment date: Sep 6, 2007
Julia
said:
I studied in Taiwan for a semester a couple years ago. I have not yet been to Mainland China but plan to once I graduate in a few months. Though I haven’t been to the mainland, I have to say that my experience in Taiwan greatly helped my Mandarin studies. When I came back to the US I was surprised by how bad my classmates’ pronunciation was. When I started having private lessons with a tutor from Beijing, her pronunciation was not so different from what I had studied in Taiwan.
Comment date: Nov 1, 2007
Amanda
said:
Hey very interesting… I wanna visit China some day but my Mandarin is not very good.
Anyone care to be an email pal w me so can exchange interesting info abt China n other related topics pls email me at bestlife008-quest@yahoo.com.sg
Looking for sincere friends from China n any English speaking ppl in China too right now can also email me if care to be a friend…
Comment date: Apr 26, 2008
Er
said:
yup, I agree with you, you can learn chinese from other people and from other country.
Who are in Singapore and Malaysia, can meet up with me. I try my best to share with you, my email ercompany@hotmail.com
Comment date: Jul 29, 2008