Comments on: The Curse of the Convergent Concepts http://laowaichinese.net/the-curse-of-the-convergent-concepts.htm Tips and Strategies for Learning to Speak Mandarin Chinese Thu, 17 May 2012 13:19:20 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Joel http://laowaichinese.net/the-curse-of-the-convergent-concepts.htm/comment-page-1#comment-9732 Joel Thu, 26 Aug 2010 14:02:27 +0000 http://laowaichinese.net/?p=116#comment-9732 Sure, no doubt there's plenty of ways to specify the meaning if someone wants to. Problem is, when people are talking they usually don't bother and just use 让, expecting you to understand from the context. I routinely get this problem in reverse from my students when they talk about things like "My boss let me work late yesterday." Know of anywhere to read a really good explanation of when and how people actually say that difference (other than just by using 让 and relying on the context)? Sure, no doubt there’s plenty of ways to specify the meaning if someone wants to. Problem is, when people are talking they usually don’t bother and just use 让, expecting you to understand from the context.

I routinely get this problem in reverse from my students when they talk about things like “My boss let me work late yesterday.”

Know of anywhere to read a really good explanation of when and how people actually say that difference (other than just by using 让 and relying on the context)?

]]> By: David http://laowaichinese.net/the-curse-of-the-convergent-concepts.htm/comment-page-1#comment-6520 David Fri, 24 Oct 2008 12:15:16 +0000 http://laowaichinese.net/?p=116#comment-6520 [让 still annoys me, because in English “he made me…” is significantly different from “he let me…”.] Yes, but 让 is not the only word in Chinese for these concepts. They can easily be differented, for example by saying 他迫我... (he made me) and 他允许我... (he let me). [让 still annoys me, because in English “he made me…” is significantly different from “he let me…”.]

Yes, but 让 is not the only word in Chinese for these concepts. They can easily be differented, for example by saying 他迫我… (he made me) and 他允许我… (he let me).

]]> By: Joel http://laowaichinese.net/the-curse-of-the-convergent-concepts.htm/comment-page-1#comment-4178 Joel Sat, 17 May 2008 03:09:56 +0000 http://laowaichinese.net/?p=116#comment-4178 By the way, have you seen this? http://www.thechinaexpat.com/chinese-learning-goal/ It reminded me of that one discussion we had on both our blogs about language goals and accurate expectations. By the way, have you seen this? http://www.thechinaexpat.com/chinese-learning-goal/

It reminded me of that one discussion we had on both our blogs about language goals and accurate expectations.

]]> By: Helen http://laowaichinese.net/the-curse-of-the-convergent-concepts.htm/comment-page-1#comment-4177 Helen Wed, 14 May 2008 06:16:06 +0000 http://laowaichinese.net/?p=116#comment-4177 The Olympic sport of diving : dive = tiàoshuǐ﹛here, it is a proper noun in Chinese.﹜ Jump into the water : tiào jìn shuǐ / tiàoshuǐ (including tiàohé跳河jump into a river, tiàojiāng跳江jump into a(large)river , tiàohǎi跳海, or tiào jìn chítáng跳进池塘 jump into a pool, etc. It depends on the circumstances.) When you say torch, people definitely know that what you mean is huǒjù. In my little opinion, that confusion has nothing to do with a language difference or a cultural difference. Surely there are two or more torches. But certainly the Olympic flame is unique. The Olympic sport of diving : dive = tiàoshuǐ﹛here, it is a proper noun in Chinese.﹜
Jump into the water : tiào jìn shuǐ / tiàoshuǐ (including tiàohé跳河jump into a river, tiàojiāng跳江jump into a(large)river , tiàohǎi跳海, or tiào jìn chítáng跳进池塘 jump into a pool, etc. It depends on the circumstances.)

When you say torch, people definitely know that what you mean is huǒjù.
In my little opinion, that confusion has nothing to do with a language difference or a cultural difference.
Surely there are two or more torches. But certainly the Olympic flame is unique.

]]> By: Jim Mahler http://laowaichinese.net/the-curse-of-the-convergent-concepts.htm/comment-page-1#comment-4170 Jim Mahler Sun, 11 May 2008 12:58:40 +0000 http://laowaichinese.net/?p=116#comment-4170 I happened to think of the word "carry". In English we can carry things in our arms, in our hands, on our backs, over our shoulders, on our heads, and even in our heads. What an amazing lack of definition in English (our Chinese students must think) that a single verb has to suffice to describe such a wide variety of actions! I happened to think of the word “carry”. In English we can carry things in our arms, in our hands, on our backs, over our shoulders, on our heads, and even in our heads. What an amazing lack of definition in English (our Chinese students must think) that a single verb has to suffice to describe such a wide variety of actions!

]]> By: Jim Mahler http://laowaichinese.net/the-curse-of-the-convergent-concepts.htm/comment-page-1#comment-4169 Jim Mahler Sat, 10 May 2008 05:38:20 +0000 http://laowaichinese.net/?p=116#comment-4169 According to my wife, these are both 跳水, and if you want to be more specific, you'd have to say "head first" or "feet first". It's common in every language that words have a broad range of meanings, which are then made specific by adjectives or adverbials. If Chinese is a bit more abstract than English, it's only because Chinese people are high-context speakers (i.e., they're comfortable with a higher level of abstraction than English speakers). According to my wife, these are both 跳水, and if you want to be more specific, you’d have to say “head first” or “feet first”.

It’s common in every language that words have a broad range of meanings, which are then made specific by adjectives or adverbials. If Chinese is a bit more abstract than English, it’s only because Chinese people are high-context speakers (i.e., they’re comfortable with a higher level of abstraction than English speakers).

]]> By: Joel http://laowaichinese.net/the-curse-of-the-convergent-concepts.htm/comment-page-1#comment-4167 Joel Sat, 10 May 2008 03:43:48 +0000 http://laowaichinese.net/?p=116#comment-4167 haha - you dared blasphemy the 'sacred' flame? ;) I'm guessing this 'lack of definition' or whatever we want to call it, is going to be a continual theme as we get deeper into Mandarin. 让 still annoys me, because in English "he made me..." is significantly different from "he let me...". haha – you dared blasphemy the ‘sacred’ flame? ;)

I’m guessing this ‘lack of definition’ or whatever we want to call it, is going to be a continual theme as we get deeper into Mandarin. 让 still annoys me, because in English “he made me…” is significantly different from “he let me…”.

]]> By: Nicki http://laowaichinese.net/the-curse-of-the-convergent-concepts.htm/comment-page-1#comment-4165 Nicki Sat, 10 May 2008 01:40:10 +0000 http://laowaichinese.net/?p=116#comment-4165 Interesting! I got to attend the opening and closing ceremonies for the Haikou leg of the relay on May 5, and was quite surprised to learn that there ARE many official Olympic torches. Apparenty each torchbearer gets to keep one! I also read online (I forget where, sorry) that the torch that went up Everest was a specially designed torch, separate from the official torch relay. They also carry the sacred fire in a little lantern device sometimes...anyway I know this doesn't help one bit with the language issues you were discussing, but if you want to see what I'm talking about with the lantern, I got some pictures of it in Haikou: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=115232&l=e3912&id=582420159 Interesting! I got to attend the opening and closing ceremonies for the Haikou leg of the relay on May 5, and was quite surprised to learn that there ARE many official Olympic torches. Apparenty each torchbearer gets to keep one! I also read online (I forget where, sorry) that the torch that went up Everest was a specially designed torch, separate from the official torch relay. They also carry the sacred fire in a little lantern device sometimes…anyway I know this doesn’t help one bit with the language issues you were discussing, but if you want to see what I’m talking about with the lantern, I got some pictures of it in Haikou:

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=115232&l=e3912&id=582420159

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