Comments on: Why does Chinese have measure words?

By: Albert

Albert — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:38:30 +0000

Hi Monk,
You’re right. English does have measure words, i.e. words that measure stuff. I guess I should have said “English doesn’t (usually) have useless measure words for things that don’t need to be measured beyond just counting how many of them there are.” For example, with 一本书, the 本 isn’t telling us anything we didn’t already know. It’s “1 book” we don’t ask “1 what book?” or “how much book?” That’s what I’m talking about here, but you’re right, could have stated it more clearly. That’s the great thing about blogging: everyone gets to hold me accountable

By: Monk

Monk — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 08:31:58 +0000

Thanks for the post! This would be particulary useful for someone just starting with measure words.

However, I find your argument that “partitives don’t count” to be quite odd. They often describe shape as well as amount. Take paper as an example:

a sheet – you’d expect it to be light, flat, and thin
a pack – you’d expect it to be paper in some kind of paper or plastic enclosure, small enough to carry easily
a box – you’d expect it to be pretty large, possibly too heavy to carry

Even loaf vs. slice describe shape as well as quantity.

> We say “a grain of sand” because we don’t mean “a bucket of sand.”

But Chinese language does that too. To go back to the paper example, you say “一相纸”, not “5000张纸”.

And actually, you said “a cup of water” doesn’t count in English, but you listed it as an example in Chinese here: http://laowaichinese.net/top-10-measure-words-to-know.htm. Why?

That post also lists 双 as a measure word, so wouldn’t “pair” in English be one too?

The only salient point I got from that section of the post is “In Chinese, you have measure words on countable things which, although not necessary and usually not present in English, also describe the shape/apperarance of the thing.” That’s true, and it’s kind of cool. But to say that English doesn’t have measure words is, in my humble opinion, a bit off the mark.

By: Bruce

Bruce — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:27:58 +0000

one of the many reasons for the variety of measure words is that it adds variety to the life. Language is not peerly a tool for communication, at least for native speakers. It is more a carrier for a culture. It’s really difficult for a non-native speaker to feel the majesty from the measure word “尊 zun“， or the greatness from “座 zuo”, or the elegance from “丝si”.

By: Bruce

Bruce — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:36:54 +0000

在汉语里有许多简单的物品，在英语里则需要成双成对的表达：
　　a pair of glasses (scissors, spectacles, trousers, pants, pliers)(一副眼镜，一把剪刀，一副眼镜，一条裤子，一条裤子，一把剪钳)等。
　　英语的 … of … 结构既可以修饰可数名词，也可以修饰不可数名词，如：a piece of paper, a piece of information, an article of clothes(一张纸，一条消息，一件衣物)。
　　汉语里的表示度量衡的量词在英语里可以找到相应的表达结构，即 … of …。
　　比如：a cup of water, a packet of cigarettes, a basket of vegetables(一杯水，一盒香烟，一篮子蔬菜)。
　　最有意思的就是英语关于各种动物群体的称呼了，各不相同。如：
　　an army of elephants(一群大象); a pack / throng of wolves(一群狼); a batch of dogs(一群狗);
　　a brood of chicks(一群小鸡); a hive of bees(一群蜜蜂); a host of monkeys(一群猴子);
　　a school of fish(一群鱼); a swarm of locusts(一群蝗虫);
　　a team / field of horses(一群马); a gang of elks(一群驼鹿)等等。
　　汉语中的形象量词在英语里也能找到对应，如：
　　a head of garlic(一头蒜); a drop of water(一滴水); a flood of moonlight(一片月光);
　　a wisp of smoke(一缕烟); a pane of glass(一块玻璃); a layer of rock(一层岩石);
　　a cloud of smoke(一团烟雾); a beam of light(一束光线); a blade of grass(一片草叶);
　　a block of wood(一块木头); a cube of sugar(一块方糖); a roll of newspaper(一卷报纸);
　　a cone of icecream(一个蛋卷冰淇淋); a bar of chocolate(一块巧克力); a stack of hay(一堆乾草);
　　a loaf of bread(一个面包); a grain of rice(一粒米); a cake of soap(一块肥皂);
　　a dash of salt(一撮盐); a coil of wire(一卷电线); a ball of wool(一个毛线球)。
　　许多形象量词，不仅说明了数量，还有动态和修辞的含意，比如：
　　a glimmer of hope(一线希望); a burst of laughter(一阵笑声); a gust of wind(一股风);
　　a web of railroad(铁路网), a train of thoughts(一连串的想法)等等。
　　英语和汉语关于表示数量的词的用法还有一点不同。
　　汉语说一杯好茶，在英语里则是一好杯茶：a nice cup of tea。
　　类似的例子还有：a thin coat of ice(一层薄冰), a stagnant pool of water(一潭死水), a beautiful stretch of field(一片美丽的原野)等等。

By: Jim Mahler

Jim Mahler — Mon, 03 Sep 2007 13:25:33 +0000

I think Chinese has measure words for the same reason English has articles — I just haven’t figured out what that reason is yet.

By: Rachael Winkless

Rachael Winkless — Sun, 02 Sep 2007 21:18:48 +0000

RHUBARB.
You have missed what I find the most useful example.
We never have “a rhubarb”. We have a stick of rhubarb (or a head of rhubarb for a whole plant).

Does Chinese have an equivalent of our group-nouns, such as herd, flock, pack, gaggle? I haven’t got that far yet.

By: Random

Random — Sun, 02 Sep 2007 14:39:41 +0000

I’ve heard measure words didn’t exist in classical chinese, they only cropped up sometime in the Ming/Ching, so theory 1 may have a small hole in it.

By: BJ expat

BJ expat — Tue, 02 Jan 2007 08:10:36 +0000

One more thing!

A “piece of grass” would indeed be frowned upon in English. It’s “blade” of grass. (Unless you are buying it in small bags, which is another thing entirely…)

By: BJ expat

BJ expat — Tue, 02 Jan 2007 08:08:30 +0000

(I mistakenly posted this on the wrong thread…)

Okay…just to illustrate how far off the “head of cattle” thing really is, here is a list of the correct terms to use for various groups of animals in English. You will meet few who know more than 2 or 3 of these, but is actually incorrect to use any other term for the following… So, in addition to the well known gaggle of geese, pack of dogs and pride of lions, you can try to remember…

An army of frogs (note: not toads, see below)
A bale of turtles.
A business of ferrets.
A Cete of badgers.
A charm of hummingbirds. Also goldfinches.
An exaltation of larks.
A covey of quail. Also partridge.
A convocation of eagles.
A gam of whales.
A hover of trout.
A knot of toads.
A grist of bees.
A husk of hares.
A span of mules.
A wedge of swans.
A siege of hawks.
A kindle of kittens.
A sleuth of bears.
A murder of crows.
A dray of squirrels.

..and that is NOT all of them!! Unlike Chinese, the terms obviously have no relationship to the shape of the thing measured, they are apparently just terms that someone, ages ago, decided were correct. But they are indeed the only correct terms to use if anyone was to bother (and they don’t!).

By: BJ expat

BJ expat — Tue, 02 Jan 2007 07:51:53 +0000

As for English measure words and the example of “head” of cattle…you are missing dozens of them!

You cannot say “head” of geese, for example, it is “gaggle” of geese; likewise for “pack” of dogs, “pride” of lions, and many, many others.

Animal group meaures are about the closest thing English has to Chinese measure words, and they are even MORE obscure…and useless!